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Old 10-09-2012, 09:45 AM   #601
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Now now boys,,,,play nice. We don't want anyone spittin' the dummy and throwing their toys out of the pram

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Old 10-09-2012, 01:26 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by jeffjjpkiser1 View Post
So you know what a carboy airlock is right? You know that bubbles come up right? When fermentation slows down the bubbles slow down right? Do I have you at this point? The slow down tends to line up perfectly with the typical fermentation slow down or typical primary fermentation for particular styles.
Fermentation is not always dynamic...just because you don't SEE anything happening doesn't mean that the yeast aren't happily chewing away at whatever fermentables are in there....the only way to know comes from gravity readings, and nothing else.

Your airlock will slow down LONG BEFORE fermentation is complete.

Your airlock is NOT a fermentation gauge, despite what instructions or other people may have said. It is a VENT, and VALVE to release EXCESS co2 as needed. The amount of bubbles have no correlation to some concrete rate of fermentation. Initially there may be lots of bubbles, because lots of co2 is being generated in the first few days of fermentation. But eventually there's going to be less EXCESS co2 being produced, that doesn't mean fermentation is done, it just means that since most of the sugars have been consumed, the yeast are farting co2 less. SO the rate may change, or it may stop completely because there's no EXCESS being produced.

It could just as easily be bubbling or stop bubbling for that matter, due to changes in barometric pressure, temperature, or whether or not the cat or vacuum cleaner bumped into it, as it could be to because it's still fermenting.

Activity, action, bubbles, even krausen can be affected by the envoironment just as much as it being caused by the yeast...so going by that is NOT reliable.

Bubblling or lack of means nothing, like others have said the biggest part of fermentation has wound down, but that doesn't mean there's still not a lot of work for the yeast to still do.

If you want to know what's going on with your beer, then take a gravity reading. The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

Quote:
A recent "Brew" magazine article essentially said you only need at most 10-14 days for carbonation. Yes, you can mature them longer but will not change the carbonation.
And yet EVERY DAY on here, we get 5-10 threads that say something like "It's day 10 (or 12 or 14 or day 21) and my beer's not carbed yet. Of various types of beers. Of various gravites..... Every day.

Articles are great, but the REALITY of the situation, which we deal with every day on here, is that 3 weeks is the minimum it appears to take for MOST BEERS.

A lot of noobs my get some fizz early but as the video at the beginning of this sticky shows, fizzy and TRULY CARBED are two different things.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlBlnTfZ2iw
You don't have to look too far even beyond this thread to see where folks have said that their beers take at least 3 weeks to carb fully. The sheer numbers back it up.

I don't unsubscribe to the threads I answer, and so I see the follow ups...about a quarter of my postcount is answering bottling questions, and of those threads about 75% of the posters come back and report what happened to their "problem child" and of those where there's a followup 99% the beer carb up fine....somewhere after 3 weeks.

So no matter what the author of the "brew" magazine might or might not believe.....we have the sheer volume of thousands of posters who've actually EXPERIENCED this truth.

Anyway, if you want to have a debate about this or anything, take it out of this thread. This place is really supposed to be about people's tips to make bottling easier and less stressful.
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:48 PM   #603
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I won't quote anything from the above post, but only say: Listen To Revvy. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

All of my beers except those requiring bulk aging or dry hopping = 4 weeks primary, then bottle.

All of my beers except huge things that take a long time to condition = 4 weeks in bottle, then drink.

Easy to remember, and it works.

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Old 10-09-2012, 08:34 PM   #604
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
Fermentation is not always dynamic...just because you don't SEE anything happening doesn't mean that the yeast aren't happily chewing away at whatever fermentables are in there....the only way to know comes from gravity readings, and nothing else.........


I can attest to that. Last week I brewed a one gallon batch of Caribou Slobber. I haven't seen any airlock activity since then, so I started to worry I may have had some yeast issue or something.

I planned on waiting it out, what was suggested here, but my anxiety got the best of me and I had to see for myself. I know you can't rely on the airlock exclusively as a fermentation gauge, but had I at least seen one little bubble between then and today, I would not be posting this reply and instead just waiting about 2.5 weeks later to do a gravity check.

So, I open the bucket lid to see a nice looking krausen on top and nothing wrong. This tells me I have some sort of venting issue with my bucket and lid (not a good enough seal). No problem as I won't use that particular bucket next time. Everything looks good, so now I'm not going to worry about it and will sit and continue to ride it out as suggested by the good folks of this forum.

Short story was, that "RDWHAHB" comment that you see posted every time you click on a topic is some seriously underrated advice.

Thanks brewmasters.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:26 PM   #605
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I think so.... you're referring to the little vent that goes into the hole in the bung atop my carboy, right?



That's one of the many things that can cause a change in pressure inside the fermenter, resulting in a change in the rate of airlock bubbles. Some of the others are a change in temperature, barometric pressure, floorboards shifting, or as the OP of this Sticky likes to point out, the family cat rubbing up on the carboy. There's a laundry list of others, but I think you catch my drift.



Personally, I let the yeast determine when fermentation is complete. When I see that there's no activity in the carboy, I take an SG reading. ~72 hours later I'll take another. If those two readings coincide, I'll consider fermentation to be complete, and will take the appropriate next step.



Based on what? How does one's assumption of the end of fermentation influence the time bottle conditioning takes?



I agree, the bottle conditioning process takes longer than ten to 14 days.



Tell me Jeff, is all this wonderful information that you're sharing on this Sticky part of the education you received at UC Davis or where ever?

FWIW, if you haven't figured it out yet, I don't believe for a second that you have any sort of formal training in brewing, much less one from a well respected program like UC Davis. I base that solely on the fact that had you the education you claim to have, you would know better than to claim such education as a means to legitimize the things you've said on this and other threads over the last couple of days. I'm not gonna beat around the bush with sarcasm here, lets be real, it's f'n laughable that you think anyone would believe you're an alum of UC Davis' brewing sciences program when you're saying things like "airlock bubbles every 2-3 minutes means fermentation is complete" and "If you do everything else right, you don't need a yeast starter". The latter being something you claim to have heard "in your last class at Davis". In my best 'Boomer' voice, "C'MON MAN!"
***You have every right to believe what you want. No one will stop you from saying what you want to say. I just figured that I had to dum it down for you. If you wanted me to get technical with you, you should have just said so. If I read your posts correctly, you brew, you place your carboy in the closet and wait. Then check it whenever. That might work for many people but I tend to take temp readings daily at the same time of the day so I can see how the fermentation is progressing and so I can repeat it fairly easily in the future. The brewing environment that you work in plays a big role if you try to control certain aspects of your production. I'm the type of person that calculates his IBU beforehand based on my AA%'s/Utilization from boiling time. I consistently test my water pH every few months to make sure nothing has changed (even if my city sends me a breakdown) and I filter it. Every person has their own approach. Having more or less posts in here does not make you an expert. I've only posted when I was unsure of something or when I was looking for responses to difficult questions. If you sole intent is to be a douche, then be a douche.

As to the question of my schooling from Davis. Great group of guys there. A few pics from the Sudwerk brewery and one of the notebooks.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:42 PM   #606
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can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
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it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.

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Old 10-09-2012, 10:56 PM   #607
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Enough. Keep it on topic and without namecalling. There's technical info sprinkled throughout the bickering, so I'm not going to spend the time to edit and delete the offending posts. I'll simply close and/or delete the whole thread if the childish antics continue.

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Old 10-09-2012, 11:18 PM   #608
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I'd hardly say that I'm the one being douche-y here, man. As did others, I simply pointed out the flaw in what you'd posted. I'll give you this, I may have been quick here to call a spade a spade due to you and I conversing on another thread. As you can clearly see on that thread (I linked it several times above), I simply stated that I didn't agree with your assessment on tannin extraction. You then (your words) "went Papazian" on the thread, which I and others quickly pointed out might be inaccurate/dated advice. You then seemed to take great offense (based on your posts) and said you'd finished the Brewing Sciences program at UC Davis... which in and of itself is believable, I would have no reason to doubt that except for the rest of the sentence (something about yeast health/pitch rates). That, combined with your mention of airlock bubbles on this thread is why I question your honesty about that. (on a side note about "airlock bubbles": I brewed up a pale ale last night and used an "S' type lock for the first time in months, maybe a year. I noticed how little it bubbles compared to the 3 pieces I mainly use. When counting seconds between airlock bubbles, should I consider which type of airlock I'm using or is it just a general rule? )
See Jeff, what happens when you assume that you need to dumb down things for everyone, is that many people will take that as you being the dumb one for the way you say things. Personally, I prefer to give it to folks simple, straight, and well explained, but in a fashion that doesn't sound like talking down. I'm sorry if by disagreeing and pointing out my reasons for doing so is, by you, "shouting from a mountain" and somehow offensive but really, I'm just trying to point out flawed advice so that others don't make mistakes. If that's douche-y, so be it, but in my honest opinion, I think it's pretty douche-y to act like a child instead of saying, "Oh, maybe what I read in that book was wrong" when someone corrects what you've said.
Definitly three piece. The S is for looks. Comments acknowledged and apologize for douchy remark. If you're calling me a child, that's fine by me. Outdated doesn't mean it's wrong, just outdated and "perhaps" less applicable but not inaccurate. Hey, when you have your own Yeast strain on loan with White Labs then I'll say "perhaps this guy is right". In the meantime Cry Havoc
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:45 PM   #609
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Sorry Revvy, sorry Yuri, I'll stick with just the technical. This thread's too useful a thing to link to new brewers to keep muddling it up.

I've gone back and edited my posts. Sorry for feeding the troll, I just couldn't help myself. I'll lay off from here on out.

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Originally Posted by yeoitsmatt View Post
can i drink this? I mean. Im gunna. But is it fine?
Quote:
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it's not a barley wine. it's an ale.
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Originally Posted by bottlebomber View Post
Have you seen the price of ketchup lately? And I'm not talking Heinz.
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Old 10-10-2012, 01:37 AM   #610
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I've got a quick question about the waiting 3 weeks for carb thing. I brewed a BDSA that ended up stronger than anticipate thanks to a boost in efficiency on my highest gravity brew. OG was 1.098 and fermented down to about 1.005 with 3711. I made a starter. I bottled after about a month (stable gravity), waited 3 weeks, and it was dead flat. waited another few weeks, and barely got a 'phst', but no carb detectable in the drinking, no head. After another few weeks it had just the slightest hint of residual carbonation, but no head and still tastes sweet. I've been rolling them every week or even more often, and it's been 3 months now. I made a 1.089-1.014 Imp Stout with the same yeast (3 week primary) and it was carbed after about 10 days, and pretty tasty. The only difference I remember was the use of oxygen absorbing caps on the BDSA. They seem fairly clear to the light with much smaller than usual yeast cake at the bottom of the bottles. Would the lack of oxygen not allow the yeast to reproduce in-bottle and fail to eat up the sugars? Would accidentally scorching the sugar solution make it unfermentable? I don't remember doing so, but that's the only other thing I can think of.

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