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staggerlee · 03-14-2010, 08:18 PM

Hey, all -

Brewed a Northern English Brown on Feb. 6, bottled on Feb. 21. The beer spent a week at 70º until next brew day (Feb. 27), when I chilled one bottle down to try. Was flat and tasted really green and off (as expected). No fear; I'm a believer in Revvy's 3 week rule.

The Brown spent the next two weeks in the same room as I was fermenting a Saison; ambient temperatures got really high (up to nearly 85º). After one week I pulled another Brown off the shelf and tried it - the green flavour was gone and it was, if anything, overcarbonated.

As of a few days ago I pulled the Brown out of its hotbox and chilled down a couple. The first one I tried was almost totally flat. I thought it was probably the seal on the bottle (I use Grolsch-style EZ Cap bottles and haven't had a problem in either of the previous two batches, but there's always the possibility). A day later I tried another. Flat, too. Damn!

Last night I dragged out a couple more: both flat. What the hell?! At this point I'm not thinking it's the caps anymore. The only hypothesis I came up with last night was that I insufficiently stirred the priming sugar into the beer before bottling, but I rack the beer onto the sugar solution so it should mix pretty well. I still haven't completely ruled out this thesis, though. (This would explain why the one I tried earlier was overcarbed and none of the others seem to be carbed at all.)

This morning I had a brainflash: maybe the high temperatures in the conditioning/fermenting room caused the yeast to stall out and fail to carbonate. I'm going to test this thesis by returning the fermenting room to 70º, rousing the yeast in all the bottles, and giving it another three weeks. I don't think a temperature of 85º should have killed the yeast, right? If that doesn't work, I guess the next try is trying a bit of dry yeast in each bottle.

Anyone have any similar stories or can come up with an alternate idea or solution here?

(I really want this beer to come out well - it's the first one I've brewed that tastes good enough to give to friends or enter into competition. It's a tasty little sucker, just flat like pancake.)

ArcaneXor · 03-14-2010, 08:42 PM

The yeast LOVE sitting at 85 degrees; it certainly wouldn't have caused them to quit on you. It should carbonate within less than a week at those temperatures.

GLoBaLReBeL · 03-14-2010, 10:48 PM

I myself was going to post a topic on this very question.

Everything I read says to keep the beer at 70 - 74F for 3 week. But what if we keep the beer at a 80F temp? Will this cause any issues with the beer? I ask because I have a wheat sitting at 80F for a week now and I am going to let them sit for 2.5 weeks before I move them to the fridge for another 2 week. I want them to be drinkable by Easter cause I have friends and family coming over.

What are your thoughts?

marcelo · 03-14-2010, 11:04 PM

When i bottle my beers i let them in my garage, and the local temp here is 90 to 95 and sometimes its get 100, and they carb in this temp. I'm sure inside the bottle is not that hot, the beers carbs the same as it will in my ferm. refrigerator.

and tastes good

staggerlee · 03-16-2010, 01:13 AM

OK, thanks for the responses.

Two other things I'd forgotten:

1) The yeast I used was old-ish and sluggish: the last of a batch of Wyeast 1099 my LHBS had lying around while they were waiting on a fresh order. Smack pack didn't inflate the morning of brew day, did a starter mid-day which began to show signs of activity by bedtime. Fermentation was never vigorous.

2) I fined with gelatin and cold crashed a few days before bottling. Most things I've read suggest that this will still allow enough yeast for carbonation, but maybe 2) combined with 1) was a perfect storm of 3) no carb for YOU!, so:

I'm gonna try adding back some yeast and see what happens. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's a yeast issue and not a priming sugar issue. I guess I'll find out in a few weeks if it is a sugar issue - if I have to add some carb tabs it's not the end of the world, I guess.

Rake_Rocko · 05-19-2012, 12:34 PM

So, I know this is an old thread, but I'm literally experiencing the exact same situation as the OP. was wondering what happened and what the solution was, if there was one. I am just baffled that my pale ale isn't carbed. I used a starter with a stir plate and everything and the only thing I can think of is that the temps got too high. The room temp was at like 80-85 for a couple days. I dunno.

I guess I'll give it two more weeks than really assess it and see if it is carbed or not. Thanks

**Revvy** · 05-19-2012, 01:56 PM

Yeast stalls out at temps BELOW 50's. It doesn't die or do anything in high temps except work really efast, unless were talking boiling temps.

Any beer not carbess at 2.5 weeks like the original thread's post, was not carbed because the yeast stalled out. But because the brewer was impatient.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Temp and gravity are the two factors that contribute to the time it takes to carb beer. But if a beer's not ready yet, or seems low carbed, and you added the right amount of sugar to it, then it's not stalled, it's just not time yet.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

If a beer isn't carbed by "x number of weeks" you just have to give them more time. If you added your sugar, then the beer will carb up eventually, it's really a foolroof process. All beers will carb up eventually. A lot of new brewers think they have to "troubleshoot" a bottling issue, when there really is none, the beer knows how to carb itself. In fact if you run beersmiths carbing calculator, some lower grav beers don't even require additional sugar to reach their minimum level of carbonation. Just time.

I've carbed hundreds of gallons of beer, and never had a beer that wasn't carbed, or under carbed or anything of the sort (Except for a batch where I accidently mixed up lactose or Maltodextrine for priming sugar). Some took awhile, (as I said up to six months) but they ALL eventually carbed.

I don't believe there are ANY carbing problems (besides the rare capper that maybe puts a bad seal on a bottle, or tired yeast in a HIGH gravity beer) that isn't simple impatience.

As I said in my bottling blog, it's really a fool proof process, you add sugar, keep the beer above 70 and wait..

Rake_Rocko · 05-19-2012, 07:31 PM

Yea, I know that mine was early for sure, but a couple weeks ago I brewed a brown and it carbed in less than a week and i could clearly see activity and yeast on the bottom of the bottle.

That is why I was concerned. But, that may have been an unusual batch for some odd reason. I actually just put the bottles in a good spot where I most likely will forget about them. I'll check in a couple weeks.

Always humbling revvy, always humbling. Thanks

credible2 · 01-20-2013, 06:10 PM

Revvy, 3 months for a Belgian strong to carbonate? really?....That's way too long.

You should have conditioned your beer warmer (maybe 75-85 degrees), especially since you most likely used a Belgian strain (or maybe even pitched in new yeast)

3 weeks at 70 degrees is a good heuristic I guess...but it's ONLY a heuristic. Many factors go into the time it takes to carbonate a beer....If it takes 3 months to carbonate any beer, add fresh yeast (any strain you prefer), or condition at higher temperatures (or both.)