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Old 11-14-2012, 03:17 AM   #11
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All done and drinking beer, thanks everyone.

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Old 11-14-2012, 11:50 AM   #12
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Haha awesome followup. What pressure are you at and how's it pouring?

Here's the other thread I was talking about:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/accu...h-line-300630/

The tubing definitely can be a rat's nest, I have mine in a big coil with zip ties holding it around. Then I just tuck the coil in front of the kegs. Not ideal, but it works.

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Old 11-14-2012, 02:07 PM   #13
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I just have apfelwein in the kegerator right now, so it's really not a good test as I just use the CO2 to dispense and not carbonate. I have a porter ready to go, but I have to cold crash and keg it first. The tubing is a rats nest, but I will probably take your suggestion and zip tie it up to at least be manageable.

If anyone is wondering I used boiling water and needle nose pliers to open the end of the tube. I then heated the barb in boiling water and used force to get the tube over the barb. Once that is done I don't see a way the tubing is going to come off, it's really tight.

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Old 01-05-2013, 08:05 PM   #14
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Any objections to doing three 16' lengths for my three faucets, splitting up my 50' coil? I'm thinking hard about ordering a 3 way secondary regulator and adjusting the pressure for each keg to work the various volumes. I don't feel like storing or changing different line lengths to suit the beer style. I don't mind turning a regulator knob to the appropriate setting.

With that in mind, does anyone have a pressure calculator based on fixed temp and line length to adjust the volumes of CO2?

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Old 01-06-2013, 01:03 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by jtkratzer View Post
Any objections to doing three 16' lengths for my three faucets, splitting up my 50' coil? I'm thinking hard about ordering a 3 way secondary regulator and adjusting the pressure for each keg to work the various volumes. I don't feel like storing or changing different line lengths to suit the beer style. I don't mind turning a regulator knob to the appropriate setting.

With that in mind, does anyone have a pressure calculator based on fixed temp and line length to adjust the volumes of CO2?
16' should be good for average serving temps and carb levels, but you might need longer if you plan on warm serving temps or high csrb levels. FWIW mine are 18', I keep everything at 40°F, and I've carbed and served up to 2.8 vol without any issues.

The line length won't change your carbonation level. To figure out the required pressure you only need the beer temp and desired carb level. This chart is pretty handy-http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:47 AM   #16
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16' should be good for average serving temps and carb levels, but you might need longer if you plan on warm serving temps or high csrb levels. FWIW mine are 18', I keep everything at 40°F, and I've carbed and served up to 2.8 vol without any issues.

The line length won't change your carbonation level. To figure out the required pressure you only need the beer temp and desired carb level. This chart is pretty handy-http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php
I've seen the chart and I know the line length doesn't impact the carb volume, just whether or not the faucet is going to pour lovely beer or give me a foam facial.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:55 AM   #17
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I've seen the chart and I know the line length doesn't impact the carb volume, just whether or not the faucet is going to pour lovely beer or give me a foam facial.
Gotcha. I don't know of any line length calculators that I'd trust. Every one I've seen calculates the length needed to achieve a flow rate of 1 gal per minute, which is often too fast for serving temps over 38F or carb levels over 2.8 vol. It's a much more complex and dynamic situation than most people realize, so I'm not even sure an accurate calculator for varied pour speeds is even a feasible thing to create.
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:40 AM   #18
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Gotcha. I don't know of any line length calculators that I'd trust. Every one I've seen calculates the length needed to achieve a flow rate of 1 gal per minute, which is often too fast for serving temps over 38F or carb levels over 2.8 vol. It's a much more complex and dynamic situation than most people realize, so I'm not even sure an accurate calculator for varied pour speeds is even a feasible thing to create.
With all the calculators out there telling you how long your line length should be based on given inputs/constants, you'd think the algebraic formulas could be worked keeping line length constant and outputting a CO2 pressure.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:45 AM   #19
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With all the calculators out there telling you how long your line length should be based on given inputs/constants, you'd think the algebraic formulas could be worked keeping line length constant and outputting a CO2 pressure.
Even if that were possible, why would you want such a thing? The CO2 pressure always needs to match the carbonation level of the beer. If you set the pressure lower than whatever corresponds to the carbonation level already in the beer, gas will come out of solution and collect in the lines, which will cause foamy pours no matter how long your lines are. If you set the pressure higher than the corresponding pressure of the carbonation level, the beer will become more carbonated. Or are you wanting a calculator that will tell you the max carbonation level you can serve with a given line length? If that's the case, it seems like a backwards way to look at serving kegged beer. Beer line is cheap, why not choose the appropriate/desired carbonation level for the beer, and then balance the system by changing the line length?

To answer your question though, the reason such a calculator would be difficult to create is that the line resistance is not a fixed figure, but actually changes with fluid velocity. Even with the existing calculators which are all designed to give you a 1gal/min pour, the resistance figures used are highly inaccurate since the line resistance even at a fixed fluid velocity varies a lot between manufacturers, and even between production runs. Even if you came up with accurate equations that calculated the resistance, you'd still have the issue that different temperature and pressure combinations require different pour speeds, which IMO is the primary flaw in the existing calculators.

I know many of the calculators claim that they're figuring out the "IDEAL" line length, but that's a bit misleading IMO. What they're actually giving you is the MINIMUM line length that won't cause serious foaming issues (as long as your beer is stored very cold and not carbed over ~2.8 vol). The only downside to lines longer than this "ideal" length is a very slightly slower pour. If you're running a bar where the beer is all carbed at or close to 2.7 vol, and stored at 34°-38°, and the number of pints you can fill in a minute impacts your profits, then getting the fastest pour that doesn't create issues is ideal. For myself and most other homebrewers that's not the case. If I have time to drink a beer, I have a couple extra seconds to wait for it to pour. I feel like the pour taking a couple seconds longer is a small price to pay for having a system that's capable of pouring pretty much any combination of temperature and carbonation level I'll ever want to use. Because of this, I wouldn't even use an "ideal line length" calculator even if an accurate and reliable one were available. As always, YMMV.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:04 AM   #20
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You're right. I'm pretty beat fighting a nasty cold and dealing with two kids who aren't feeling 100%, one of which is 5 months old and not sleeping well at night.

Makes sense to me, and while even the Bev-Seal isn't expensive, it's turning into a high pain in the d*ck to work with. Without having multiple sets of spare lines around, what's the solution? Longer lines than necessary for most brews and deal with a slower pour? If it's Bev-Seal line, is going to be extra liquid disconnects, tail pieces and tail nuts because I'm not building fresh lines with this stuff every time I want to change a length.

I don't mind the slow pour. I posted on another thread that I have time for beautifully poured, properly carbonated beer.

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