Too Complicated to Title

jalgayer · 01-16-2011, 02:09 PM

Hey All

I wasnt even sure what to put in the title for this...I made a cider/malt beverage that went like this... This is for a 10gal batch

Steeped for 40 min
1 lb Crystal 120L
1 lb Honey Malt
4 oz Torrified Wheat

This is one spot that I am not sure on. I know that Honey Malt and torrified Wheat need to be mashed. Not sure what I was thinking when I just steeped them. Wasnt thinking.

Added 5 lb Amber DME and boiled for 60 minutes with 2 oz Crystal (to get to IBU of 10) as well as 1 lb malto detrin and 2 lb lactose sugar

After cooling added 8 gallons for pure apple juice and topped with water to the 5.25 gallon mark.

Added yeast (a rehydrated blend of 1 packet SA05 and one packet WINDSOR.

OG was 1.077 and now it is down to 1.020 after 1 week. The fermentation was vigourous for 3 days then mild for 4 days and now slow.

Last cider went down to 1.008. This seems high. Not sure if its due to the non-mashing? The lactose or malto?

I know that it may/will go lower but just wondering if I am at least in the right ball park. Are the things I should do/watch for?

Thanks for any input or advice on this

J

jalgayer · 01-16-2011, 02:20 PM

AGAIN, just to clarify, I know and plan to wait it out. I like to let em sit a while before bottling. Just curious as to what FG I should expect I guess is my main question.
Thanks

**Edcculus** · 01-16-2011, 02:24 PM

1.008 seems about right for something like this. The whole point of combining beer wort and apple juice is to maintain some residual sweetness while still allowing the beverage to reach FG. If you are making cider from 100% juice, you have to monitor fermentation very carefully to see when you need to crash cool or bottle/pasteurize.

The malts you steeped won't really add any fermentables, but they will add body, sweetness and color.

As long as your FG is stable 3 days in a row, you are ok bottle.

jalgayer · 01-16-2011, 02:36 PM

Thanks!

So the fact that it is done with vigourous fermentation and is only at 1.020 is not an issue?

I was thinking that with all those unfermentables (matlo, lactose, unmashed malts) that it would finish higher than 1.008.

But even with all those you are saying in the 1.006 - 1.010 range is what I should look for?

jalgayer · 01-16-2011, 02:39 PM

Edcullus... two more questions...

[1] Why would this finish at the same level my last cider finished (1.007ish) even though this one has all those extra unfermentables?

[2] Is you name any reference to the "great and knowledgeable icculus"?

rjwhite41 · 01-16-2011, 03:50 PM

1) It shouldn't. It would finish higher.

2) I'll leave this question for Edcullus.

Calder · 01-16-2011, 04:16 PM

What volume? You added 8 gallons of juice and topped up to 5.25 gallons with water.

Both Lactose and Maltodextrin are unfermentable (mostly). Both add 36 gravity points per lb. You used 2 lbs of Lactose and 1 lb of Maltodextrin. That's 108 gravity points. In 5.25 gallons, that would be about 20 points per gallon.

With the added Crystal and DME, I'm surprised you got below 1.025.

If it is a 5 gallon batch, I think you are just about done. If it's a 10 gallon batch, you still have a few points to go.

**Edcculus** · 01-16-2011, 04:29 PM

Since you have mostly juice base, those unfermentables arent' going to affect it in the same way it would a regular beer wort. Apple juice is typically 100% or very close to 100% fermentable. The juice between both batches could have had more or less sugar. You could determine that next time by taking the SG of the juice by itself. Store juices will range from 1.040 to 1.055. Just looking at your recipe, I probably wouldn't have guessed it would go that low, but hey, the hydrometer never lies.

Yea, my name is a reference to Icculus. My name is Ed, and I love Phish. If you can tell me the artist and album from my avatar without zooming in on the letters, you get even more points!

jalgayer · 01-16-2011, 04:59 PM

Ok,
If it wasnt clear this is a 10 gallon batch. Acutally like 10.5 gallons. It would be kinda tough to squeeze 8 gallons of juice into a 5 gal batch

I used 8 gallons of juice and topped up with water, but the wort from the DME and grains did not leave a lot of room for water. Maybe 1/2 gallon - 3/4 gallon per carboy (or 1.25 gallon total in a 10.5 gallon batch.

So, Ed. At one point you said expect it to go to 1,008 and that the unfermentables shouldnt affect it much. And another spot you said you are surprised it went that low.

So with...
8 gallons of juice
5# DME (woops looks like I said 2.5 in OP)
2# Lactose
1# Malto
The Crystal/Honey Malt/Wheat

And an OG close to 1.080
And a current FG of 1.020

What are the thoughts on where I am and where I should end up?

Again, I know to wait for a steady hydro reading, and I know to wait in general. Just curious as to what to expect.

My last cider (a lot less malts, DME, and no lactose or matlo) finished around 1.006 or there abouts so I wasnt expecting it to get that low... but 1.020 seemed high.

Thanks for any input, speculation or advice.

And Ed, not sure on that picture!

J

jalgayer · 01-16-2011, 05:01 PM

By the way, if I didnt say it already - I really appreciate the advice from you guys in this thread!