Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > Sour! Help!
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-26-2009, 05:52 PM   #1
brazedowl
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 842
Liked 33 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default Sour! Help!

I'm trying for some hard cider... I started this almost two months ago... It has stopped bubbling, started to clear and SMELLS like cider... but it is almost completely unbearably sour to taste. If I add sugar to the glass the sourness disappears and it is wonderful to behold. I'm thinking about just reracking my 5 gallons onto another 3lbs of sugar or so (dissolved)... thoughts?

~~ Recipe details~~
*Ingredients
5.5 gal pasturized apple cider
3lb dark brown sugar
1lb Light DME
1lb Dark DME
1pkt Montrechet Yeast
1tsp Energizer
1 crushed campden tablet

__________________
In Progress: White Clover Wine
In Progress: Blueberry Wine (1)
In Progress: Fresh Fig Wine
In Progress: Ginger Spiced Cider
Bottled: oodles and oodles
______________________

"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?"
brazedowl is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-26-2009, 08:43 PM   #2
Teromous
Beer Gnome
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Teromous's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 2,553
Liked 323 Times on 186 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

You could try adding sugar then cold crashing it to help prevent restarting your fermentation, then heat pasteurizing the bottles after it's done. If you keg you can try to add sugar and filter it. If you don't want it carbonated you could add sugar then use preservatives to keep it still. You could use a non-fermenting sweetener. You could leave it as is, and sweeten to taste. You could ferment a batch of cider that has less acidity and a higher tannin then try blending the two together.

__________________
Teromous is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-26-2009, 11:37 PM   #3
ByCandleLightWinery
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 76
Default

Montrechet Yeast will not cold crash. Ciders in general do not cold crash. Cider makers allow their stuff to freeze in outside tanks, and when they thaw, they start fermenting again.

How long ago did you start your batch? Since you said it quit bubbling, it might just need to be racked without adding anything. Actually, if you wanted to add something, apple juice might be better, but you could do the sugar if you wanted to.

Between the sugar and the DME, you have a wine going on. You don't mention OG or SG at all, but I'm guessing you have more than a normal cider's 7%, especially if you do add more sugar.

__________________
ByCandleLightWinery is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-26-2009, 11:40 PM   #4
ByCandleLightWinery
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 76
Default

You know, I have to add this - cider is fermenting apple juice. No sugar added ever. Moment you do that, you are making wine.

__________________
ByCandleLightWinery is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-26-2009, 11:46 PM   #5
brazedowl
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 842
Liked 33 Times on 25 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Yea I am for sweet stuff that kicks ya in the butt... I never remember to check the gravity until I need to know what it was. I'm quite forgetful in that department...

I just want to sweeten it up without it fermenting again without using artificial sweeteners.

__________________
In Progress: White Clover Wine
In Progress: Blueberry Wine (1)
In Progress: Fresh Fig Wine
In Progress: Ginger Spiced Cider
Bottled: oodles and oodles
______________________

"What senses do we lack that we cannot see or hear another world all around us?"
brazedowl is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-26-2009, 11:59 PM   #6
Yan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 168
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ByCandleLightWinery View Post
You know, I have to add this - cider is fermenting apple juice. No sugar added ever. Moment you do that, you are making wine.
That's an opinion. One I do largely agree with, but not a fact. There are plenty commercial ciders out of a few places, including places very close to tradition like England and Eastern Canada that have sugar added to boost the abv or bacsweeten or whatnot. It's not an ideal to me, but it doesn't make it less of a cider. Apple wine and cider have a pretty important stylistic difference to them too, and an augmented cider that may be strong and tastes like a cider to me is still a cider.
__________________
Yan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2009, 02:25 AM   #7
ByCandleLightWinery
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brazedowl View Post
I never remember to check the gravity until I need to know what it was. I'm quite forgetful in that department...

I just want to sweeten it up without it fermenting again without using artificial sweeteners.
Okay, the OG isn't important at the moment. Find out what the SG is to see where it is at now. I still recommend racking it, as I wonder if that is part of the reason it is sour. I was once told that you won't lose a batch racking too early, but you will loose a batch racking to late.

otherwise, then chemicals and sugar... chemicals and sugar, my friend.

@Yan- true, especially the backsweetened part. But the really good craft cider makers use real cider apples and there isn't anyway they are going to let sugar touch their brew at that point. It's the ones who use concentrate (which I have to do as a hobbiest living in the city) that tend to add sugar at the beginning, kind of like a filler. I can tell the difference. However, you are right that backsweetening is done with sugar, though, again, a lot of craft ciders would rather use juice.
__________________
ByCandleLightWinery is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2009, 03:24 AM   #8
jcobbs
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Alabama
Posts: 469
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

There are others far more knowledgeable on here, but I would recommend either wine conditioner or a nonfermentable such as lactose. If you keep adding more fermentable sugars you run the risk of restarting your fermentation, and you probably will keep fermenting until you eventually reach the alcohol tolerance of the yeast. By then you may have altered the taste until you don't like it any more, and it will take quite a while to age out the alcohol hotness. If you like the taste now, then you want to try to keep things where they are and just add some sweetness.

__________________
Hickory Glynn Winery & Brewery
jcobbs is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2009, 08:09 AM   #9
Teromous
Beer Gnome
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Teromous's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 2,553
Liked 323 Times on 186 Posts
Likes Given: 49

Default

CandleLight: Yes, you can cold crash hard cider. I don't know what you're smoking to believe that yeast will ferment just as it comes out of freezing temperatures. You can cold crash, sweeten, and keep it cool and have no problems. Yeah, if you leave it outside in the sun...the yeast is going to activate again. I'd like to think that people on these forums are smart enough to figure that one out. Apparently I will have to start writing warnings for every contingency.

"Warning, don't pour yeast starter in your eyes"

"Warning don't dump a load of fermentable ingredients into your cider and allow it to remain at a temperature which it can still ferment, in a vessel that can not withstand the pressure or ventilate pressure to atmosphere."


Yes, you can add sugar to increase fermentable material and still call it a cider. Apples contain enough sugar on their own to extend the ABV beyond what is accepted by the ATF as a cider, so I hardly think that adding sugar would do much to change it by reputation. What you have is an opinion. I know farms where they wouldn't call it a cider without it being mulled. That's their opinion. So why don't you let others have their opinion? It's my opinion that real cider is made from pressed apples. Guess what, many people can't. So why rob them of the joy of brewing by telling them that they're not making a real cider?

__________________
Teromous is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-27-2009, 09:47 AM   #10
gregbathurst
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 850
Liked 30 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I agree that cider should be made without sugar, but any look through this forum shows that its standard practise for many people, so why worry about it.
As for cider refermenting in spring, I believe this refers to malolactic fermentation rather than yeast, which is a good way to reduce the sourness complained of by the OP. Malic acid is very sour so fermenting it reduces the sourness quite considerably.

__________________
gregbathurst is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
attempting 1st sour....not sour enough bruinbeer Fermentation & Yeast 4 08-24-2009 09:54 PM
should I try and fix this sour Chester Lambic & Wild Brewing 6 08-16-2009 04:40 AM
Going to try my first sour smellysell Recipes/Ingredients 10 03-06-2009 04:15 PM
Sour Sour Sour! BroBride Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 23 07-17-2008 02:37 AM
sour... Punn Cider Forum 35 10-28-2005 08:42 PM