What you do is up to you, but I can assure you that cold crashing works if you do it right. I've made well over 400 gallons of cider in the past 10 years, cold crashed most of it, store at room temp and never had a problem. I do mostly kegs, but I've also done close to 300 liter bottles, also stored at room temp. The only time I've ever cracked a bottle was with a wild yeast batch that I made last year and crashed at 1.020. One of the bottles cracked over the summer, sometime in July. I knew I was pushing the envelope with that batch, usually I crash at 1.010 or lower.
I've never had a problem cold crashing gallon batches, regardless of the yeast, other than the aforementioned bottle of wild yeast. I've also never had a problem with 5 gal batches of Nottingham, S04, US05 or 3068. 5 gal batches of 4184 and S23 have been a little tougher to stop.
Pasteurized juice does take longer to crash. Probably because the yeast binds to the pectin, which is slow to fluctuate. I forgot to mention that before. I havent used pasteurized juice in a while.
At any rate, its easy enough to test this yourself. Rack it, chill it for a day or two, rack it again and let it come back up to room temp. Let it sit for as long as you want. If the sg stays stable, you're good. If not, you can drink it, keg it or sorbate and bottle it. Either way, you havent lost anything.
If you cold crash and bottle it though, its going to be still. All the priming sugar is going to do is sweeten it.
k-meta and k-sorbate both leave easily discernible tastes. The k-meta is less obnoxious if added after fermentation, but still has some taste. k-sorbate leaves a more prominent taste, but it is less objectionable than the k-sorbate. This is something you can easily verify yourself if you are bottling - bottle a few before you add any chemicals. Then add the chemicals and bottle the rest. Then you can compare them later. You may find that you like the taste of the sorbate, but you will definitely notice a difference.
I have backsweetened kegs with a mix of organic cane sugar and dextrose if I accidentally let one ferment out too far. You can get an acceptable taste, but its not the same as the natural sugar. The last half a percent or so is where most of the complex sugars in the apple juice get fermented and those complex sugars are what gives you the apple taste. Cane and corn sugar can get you back to something that is drinkable, but its not the same flavor - at least not if you are starting with fresh pressed apple juice.
so, if i understand right, cold crashing following this method would effectively stop fermentation and stabilize your drink for backsweetening, without the need for chemicals?
__________________ Secondary: Melissa's English Bitter Ale:::coopers Bitter LME + pale DME + dark molasses:::5 gallons Drinking: Cooper's Stout + white honey + buckwheat honey + raw sugar ::: 5 Gallons ...almost all gone... Next: Nut Brown Ale
Come in beautiful Similkameen Valley and visit the winery i work at! www.orofinovineyards.com
Yes, but if you cold crash before the yeast ferments out all the apple sugar - somewhere between 1.002 and 1.010 according to taste - you wont need to backsweeten
oh, i know about the fact that not fermenting all the way will give you with a sweeter cider, i wanted to know if cold crashing would really stabilize your brew and prevent any future yeast activity.
I suppose the theory behind it is linked to dramatically lowering the yeast cell count in your batch by racking it all off..?
well its the kind of question i will be able to answer on this forum in a couple of weeks, i'm undertaking oenology studies to become an assistant winemaker in the local wine industry... first course was yesterday... wish me luck!!!!
__________________ Secondary: Melissa's English Bitter Ale:::coopers Bitter LME + pale DME + dark molasses:::5 gallons Drinking: Cooper's Stout + white honey + buckwheat honey + raw sugar ::: 5 Gallons ...almost all gone... Next: Nut Brown Ale
Come in beautiful Similkameen Valley and visit the winery i work at! www.orofinovineyards.com
Sterile filtering might be a worthwhile option. Buon Vino makes a home sized unit that can filter a gallon a minute, which is a whole lot faster than cold crashing. The rub is that the cider has to be pretty clear before you run it through the filter and it would be still fermenting and cloudy at this point. It would be interesting to see if adding some Bentonite to a fermenting batch could clear it long enough to then run it through a filter, and what effect that would have on the taste.
Ideally one of the yeast suppliers will come up with a yeast that naturally finishes at 7 or 8 percent abv. That would really cut the time it takes to make a keg of semi-dry and you could even bottle carb. Maybe one of us will get lucky and find a wild yeast that has a naturally lower abv tolerance than ale yeast. Until then I’ve resigned to cold crashing for at least another season. I’ll probably try k-sorbate again next season to see how it works with different yeasts. The taste isnt bad, just different, and it might go better with Nottingham or US05. It did clear the cider nicely – better than cold crashing. It may also fade by the next tasting.
I’ve become more of a fan of cysers this season, partly because I made some better tasting ones and partly because they crash and clear so fast. I’ve gotten best results so far with S04, Stayman blends and Basswood and Orange Blossom Honey that I got from Northern Brewer. Also I made two cysers with Jonathan juice and clover honey that I let ferment out and they cleared very fast. I just crashed two more cysers last week that did not clear as well as the previous ones this season. They cleared a lot in a couple of days and have got more clear since sitting in secondaries for a week, but didn’t get the overnight glass finish that the first ones did. I’m not sure if this is because of the juice (Staymans and Romes) or honey (NB Clover and Wildflower) or possibly even brewing temps (lower and slower than usual).
Very informative thread you've got going here...I think I am going to try my first batch shortly and I am going to try a Cyser with the S04 yeast on your recommendation.
I'm in central NC and I was planning on just getting some cider from a local grocery store - what would you suggest I do to find some locally mashed cider like you are using?
Should I just find the closest apple orchard and give them a call? It seems most of the orchards are in the Appalachians which is too long of a drive for me. However if they have a distributer that is local I would like to find it. I would prefer to know the blend of apples used and know that the cider I get is UV pasteurized only, as I have a keg system and would like this drinkable ASAP!
Much thanks for all of your good work and contribution, hopefully I can provide some insight in the future.
Hi Czerewko – The website “all about apples” has pretty good listings for orchards in each state, as well as info about a lot of apple varieties. Here is their listing for NC. You also might want to check with your local Farm Bureau.
My guess is that you are going to have a tough time finding fresh pressed juice this late in the season, but you might get lucky, especially if someone close is pressing from apples in cold storage.
You can use unpasteurized juice and still drink it fairly quickly – just cut back on the dose of k-meta. If the juice is already pretty tart, don’t use any k-meta and if it is not very tart, add a half dose. Make sure the juice is really fresh though if its unpasteurized.
If you go with store bought juice, you might want to check out what is available and see how it tastes fresh, before fermenting anything. I tried fermenting some Orchard Valley juice, which Whole Foods carries. It was decent, but not as good as the fresh pressed stuff. You also might want to consider stopping it earlier, say between 1.010 and 1.020. The big commercial presses around here tend to use a lot of red delicious apples for table juice. It is good when it is fresh, but not as much taste left when you ferment most of the sugar off.
ok im in the middle of my winery assistant courses now and one important thing about kmeta i've learned is that the effective levels are below the tasting threshold.
When you add KMS, a huge part will get bound right away with many organic constituant of your wine/cider (around 90%, as bisulfate ions) leaving an amount of molecular SO2 that is relative to the pH of you juice/brew. Its that molecular SO2 that is antimicrobial, the rest aving antioxydant properties atfter a certain amount... 50 ppm if i recall....
So, if you are not in a financial position of buying a pH meter, i would suggest that if you can taste it, there's too much.
cheers
__________________ Secondary: Melissa's English Bitter Ale:::coopers Bitter LME + pale DME + dark molasses:::5 gallons Drinking: Cooper's Stout + white honey + buckwheat honey + raw sugar ::: 5 Gallons ...almost all gone... Next: Nut Brown Ale
Come in beautiful Similkameen Valley and visit the winery i work at! www.orofinovineyards.com
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