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Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > Results from juice, yeast and sugar experiments
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:08 PM   #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caburdet78 View Post
Anyone have any good results with Trappist yeast?
The White Labs 575 that I posted about in this thread (a few posts up) is a blend of 2 Trappist and 1 Belgian Ale strains. Loved how it turned out. Definitely added some complexity to plain ole juice without actually adding anything other than juice and yeast and a little sugar to get the must to 1.06
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Old 09-02-2012, 12:57 AM   #642
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Hey, I am new here and new to home brewing in general. This post is an absolutely fantastic wealth of information. After reading this and a few other stickies many times, I have one question: the "vinegary" taste that the original poster described as being noticeable in cider made from pasteurized juice, but NOT prevalent in similar UNpasteurized juice is an effect of what? Is this something that stove-top pasteurization in bottles can prevent? A lot of the posts I've read puts a lot of stock in letting your cider age to the correct taste; is this not the case with ciders made from a pasteurized juice?
It is impossible to get unpasteurized juice where I live, and making a finished product that has taken the better part of a year to finally enjoy is an idea that really interests me. So any clarification on this would be incredibly appreciated. I'm starting my first fermentation this upcoming week! Super excited!

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Old 09-03-2012, 04:19 AM   #643
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The reason that the all the pasteurized batches went to vinegar was a) I didnt use any preservatives on those batches, b) I wasnt as careful keeping oxygen off them during racking as I could have been and c) it was almost 12 mo later.

The reason that this did not happen with the unpasteruized batches is because up until 3-4 years ago I always added k-meta to unpasteurized juice to kill the wild yeast. The k-meta also acts as a preservative, so a year later none of the ciders had turned.

I dont like the effect that the k-meta has on my cider, so I dont use it, or any preservatives. For unpasteurized juice, this does increase the chance that acetobacter can take hold and turn the cider. Because I rack my ciders a couple times during the crashing process, there is more chance for air to get in, than if you just let it ferment to dry in the same carboy. I give my carboys a shot of CO2 before and during racking so there will always be a blanket of CO2 on the surface of both carboys during the rack. Also fill any headspace with a shot of CO2 after the secondary. That has helped a lot. Also before turning to vinegar, there will usually be a malic acid taste that starts to build. If you sulfite the cider then, that will stop it. Out of 39 kegs last season, 4 started to turn by this summer. Two I caught and sulfited and two went to vinegar.

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Old 09-10-2012, 11:41 PM   #644
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I have always used S-04, I did a small batch in April with Nottingham. This was a weird mystery blend of sweet cider and I actually like the Notty better than the S-04. Pretty potent and still rather sweet. I did cold crash one month after pitching.

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Old 09-11-2012, 02:03 AM   #645
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Yeah, its hard to go wrong with Notty. Or if you can find Gervins Ale yeast, its the exact same yeast for a third the price.

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Old 09-14-2012, 06:58 AM   #646
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I picked up the first juice of the 2012 Season today. Its a mix of Cortland, Grimes Golden, Empire, Gala, Rambo and Jonathan. Its a similar mix to the first pressing of last season. The mouthfeel is not quite as good as what I remembered from last year, but it has the same great aroma, flavor and finish. Sg was 1.054. Unpasteurized, no kmeta, pitched with the following tried and true combos:

(2) Brupaks yeast with half pound of corn sugar and a pound of light turbinado per 6 gallon carboy, to bump the OG to about 1.064
(1) Brupaks yeast with no sugar
(1) Gervins English Ale yeast (AKA Notty) with half pound of corn sugar and a pound of light turbinado
(1) WLP041 with half pound of corn sugar and a pound of light turbinado
(1) Wy3056 with half pound of corn sugar and a pound of light turbinado
(1) Wy3068 with half pound of corn sugar and a pound of light turbinado
(1) Wy3333 with 2.5 lbs of Orange blossom honey

Usually I add sugar to all my first pressing batches because it makes them easier to crash consistently, and stay crashed at room temp if SG is around 1.065. Now that I have a larger fridge, I did one batch of Brupaks with no sugar. I plan to just crash that one and keep it on tap so I dont have to worry about whether it stays stable at room temp.

The Wheat yeasts and WLP041 get blowoff tubes, with carboys filled to 5.5 gal
The ale yeasts use a regular bubbler with carboys filled to 5.75 gal.



One of the handy thing about using better bottles for primaries, is that if you add sugar or honey (which I usually do for early season apples), you can just pour the sugar or honey straight into the carboy, use a #10 gum stopper, and roll them all together on the floor for about 10 min to get however many carboys you have thoroughly dissolved and mixed without a lot of effort
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Old 09-21-2012, 05:19 AM   #647
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Seven days later and I just crashed the first batch - the Brupaks with no sugar, at 1.011

The first batches of the season always go fast, although the weather has been relatively cool for this time of year. Temps in the basement have ranged from 62 to 70 over the past week, mostly around 64-66. Good thing for the brew balls, or otherwise I would not have checked these until tomorrow, by which time this first batch would likely be completely dry

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Old 09-22-2012, 05:49 PM   #648
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CvilleKevin, I appreciate all of the hard work replying to us newbees trying our hand at cider. I have been brewing for years, but never tried cider. On a whim, I picked up 2 gallons of pasteurized cider from a local orchard with the intention of trying. I have decided to use light brown sugar and s-05 yeast based off of your generous descriptions on this thread. My questions are 1) Should I transfer to my old Mr. Beer fermenter or keep in the plastic jugs they are in? I have airlocks, but not a way to attach to the tops of the gallons. 2) Most of the information is based on larger batches. What proportions of sugar and yeast should I use to not OD on either? And what temp should I ferment at? 3) I can cold crash easily with only 2 gallons so as I bottle, how much priming sugar should be added and what kind? I am also thinking of leaving half to make warm cider to try and don't need to carbonate. What is the best way to store it? It will not be saved long and I don't need long term storage. I would greatly appreciate any advice you might have! Thanks.

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Old 09-22-2012, 06:59 PM   #649
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misterme79 (and anyone else thinging about doing gallon batches) -
1) IMHO the easiest thing is to procure a 3rd gallon jug plastic jug and drink whatever is in it over the next few days and use that to crash the two gallons in succession. Get #6 1/2 rubber stoppers to hold the airlocks
2) Use enough sugar to bring the SG up to 1.060 - 1.065. If you dont have a hydrometer, 4oz/gallon is usually about average for early season apples. You can experiment with the sugar since you have 2 gal.
2b) You can split a regular pack of yeast in 2 gallons. To get the best rehydration, pour it in a little at a time and let it sit on the surface of the cider and sink before pouring in more
2b) Ferment at as low temp as you can, ideally 60-65F ambient. Above 70F and it is more likely get stinky and ferment out very quickly.
3)There is no need to add priming sugar when cold crashing. When you cold crash the cider, one of two things will happen:
a) You will successfully remove enough of the yeast and nutrients to prevent a re-ferment. In this case adding priming sugar doesnt do anything but raise the sweetness. You have to use a CO2 tank or cartridge to carb
b) You dont get all of the yeast, either intentionally or not, in which case a ferment will slowly start back and carb the bottles. In that case, you bottle the cider just a little sweeter than you want it to be when you drink it. Just make sure that you fully stop it, either by chilling or pasteurizing before it goes down more than a couple points.

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Old 09-23-2012, 06:23 AM   #650
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I kegged the batch with Brupaks and no sugar today. Its carbing up now. Its a little raw, but very appley and great finish.

Also crashed 5 other batches - 9 days after pressing / pitching yeast

The two Brupaks batches with sugar, crashed at 1.010 and 1.011, both taste great
Gervins English Ale yeast with sugar, crashed at 1.010 is smoother than the Brupaks with a little less apple
Wy3056 with sugar, crashed at 1.013, smoothier and juicier than the ale yeasts, will probably be next to tap
Wy3068 with sugar, crashed at 1.012. Tastes good, although I should have stopped it earlier

Two batches are still fermenting:
WLP041 with sugar at 1.022, tastes really good, SWMBO likes, and if I had more space in the fridge I would have crashed this one also.
Wy3333 with Orange blossom honey at 1.030, still a little sweet for me but SWMBO likes, will let go to 1.020 or so then crash.

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