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Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > Results from juice, yeast and sugar experiments
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Old 07-08-2012, 12:50 AM   #631
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Sort of followed your read:
1.5 gallons of Tree Top juice
12 oz sugar
S04 yeast
6/15 SG=1.062
6/20 SG=1.034
6/24 SG=1.028
6/29 SG=1.010
7/02 SG=1.002
7/07 Cold Crashed in secondary

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Old 07-11-2012, 03:28 AM   #632
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Cold crashing for 3 days now. So far refer is only down to 41*. Is that enough? Bottle on weekend after 1 week of crashing? Taste is dry, thinking bout adding a little fresh juice. Will that give me bombs?

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Old 07-11-2012, 04:46 PM   #633
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Quote:
Cold crashing for 3 days now. So far refer is only down to 41*. Is that enough?
It would be better to go colder if you can, but 41 should be enough to get S04 to drop. You can judge to some extent by how it looks. The carboy should have gone from light and opaque to darker and fairly clear by now.

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Bottle on weekend after 1 week of crashing? Taste is dry, thinking bout adding a little fresh juice. Will that give me bombs?
Yeah, 1.002 is fairly dry. It will get more apple taste back over time. My experience has been that the drier the ciders finish, the longer they need to age to take the edge off the acids that are left over when you ferment off all the sugar. Yes, adding fresh juice will increase the likelihood of bombs, because in addition to more sugar, you will also be adding more nutrients and the possibility of introducing wild yeast. Adding turbinado is safer if you want it sweeter and dont want to wait, or else keep it cold.

Since you used commercial juice, I'd be real careful about bottling these in glass. If you do, I'd recommend drinking one every few days or so and put them all in the fridge or pasteurize the bottles if the carb starts to build. Folks on the HBT forum have had mixed results with cold crashing. I believe the key to doing this right is (1) be really careful on the racking not to pick up any trub. Dont try to get every last drop out of the carboy when you rack it after the crash. Leave a pint or so behind which you can drink while cleaning up. (2) Use low nutrient juice so that nutrient levels are nearly/completely depleted by the time of the crash. That way, if a few yeast cells do make it though the final rack, they will be unlikely to multiply. If you live in apple country, the easiest way to get low nutrient juice is to look for an organic orchard. If you're not in apple country, its a bit of a crap shoot. The big commercial orchards tend to use nitrogen fertilizers to pump up their juice yields, which makes for more nutrients in the juice.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:52 AM   #634
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It would be better to go colder if you can, but 41 should be enough to get S04 to drop. You can judge to some extent by how it looks. The carboy should have gone from light and opaque to darker and fairly clear by now.

Not sure why it won't drop lower. It's one of those apt size refers. I have another that can freeze beer in bottles so maybe I should switch the two putting my beer ready to drink in the one that won't go below 41. BTW it's in a white 2 gallon bucket so I can't see any color. It was VERY clear when I transfered to "secondary" bucket.

Yeah, 1.002 is fairly dry. It will get more apple taste back over time. My experience has been that the drier the ciders finish, the longer they need to age to take the edge off the acids that are left over when you ferment off all the sugar. Yes, adding fresh juice will increase the likelihood of bombs, because in addition to more sugar, you will also be adding more nutrients and the possibility of introducing wild yeast. Adding turbinado is safer if you want it sweeter and dont want to wait, or else keep it cold.

Since you used commercial juice, I'd be real careful about bottling these in glass. If you do, I'd recommend drinking one every few days or so and put them all in the fridge or pasteurize the bottles if the carb starts to build. I have a good supply of plastic Gatoraide bottles and or the 1/2 gal plastic the juice came in. What do you think of those?Folks on the HBT forum have had mixed results with cold crashing. I believe the key to doing this right is (1) be really careful on the racking not to pick up any trub. Dont try to get every last drop out of the carboy when you rack it after the crash. The trub was very solid and I was able to get almost all the liquid out w/out it even slidding as I tipped the bucket. Never saw trub that solid. Leave a pint or so behind which you can drink while cleaning up. (2) Use low nutrient juice so that nutrient levels are nearly/completely depleted by the time of the crash. That way, if a few yeast cells do make it though the final rack, they will be unlikely to multiply. If you live in apple country, the easiest way to get low nutrient juice is to look for an organic orchard. If you're not in apple country, its a bit of a crap shoot. The big commercial orchards tend to use nitrogen fertilizers to pump up their juice yields, which makes for more nutrients in the juice. No apples grown here in Hawai`i so I'm stuck w/buying juice.
As we say in the islands Mahalo Nui Loa thanks very much for all you have done in this cider arena. I'm thinking about starting my next batch this Saturday.
Steve
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:09 PM   #635
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Plastic Gatorade bottles work fine. I used them for a whole season before I started bottling. I'd recommend them for at least the first couple batches, until you are sure that your juice and process results in stable results. Plus, you can experiment with adding back juice or sugar and not have to worry about re-ferments bursting bottles.

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Old 07-12-2012, 08:15 PM   #636
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Plastic Gatorade bottles work fine. I used them for a whole season before I started bottling. I'd recommend them for at least the first couple batches, until you are sure that your juice and process results in stable results. Plus, you can experiment with adding back juice or sugar and not have to worry about re-ferments bursting bottles.
Thanks Kevin, not to start cleaning them bottles. Only have about 1.75 gallons so a little math and I'll know how many to clean.
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Old 07-30-2012, 05:41 AM   #637
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I know you heard this over and over but thanks for sharing all this info. Since I've been experimenting with all sorts of ale yeasts, I figured I'd post this here...
Picked up a vial of wlp575 Belgian Yeast Blend at the LHBS (that was expired and discounted, haha) and wow, I was quite pleased! Although had a lil too much must in the primary and had to put on a blow-off tube because the airlock got all funked up I enjoy being able to drink my cider green and after 1-1/2 weeks in primary it got down to 1.25 and I racked half and cold crashed and let the other half go to 1.008 (which was dryer than I normally go). My first racking at 1.025 tasted great after cold crashing for a couple days. And amazingly was very clear! Actually looks like apple juice in a glass. In my experience, this yeast is at the top of my list...along with Notty and S-04 of course! Thought I'd add that I let it ferment in my cool basement and I used a mix of store-bought "grown in the USA juice"...half Treetop and half Musselmans. Added only two cans organic concentrate to boost SG close to 1.06. The whole reason for this post is to say that this batch became very drinkable quickly and if anyone is looking to try something different, this yeast worked real nice with my storebought selections. This one was my "made in the USA batch". Paid a lil more, but was quite worth it. After racking out the primary, I just dumped 4 more gallons of some cheaper juice right in the primary and this stuff is gonna finish very shortly! Added some cherry juice to it this time around. Still trying to determine if liquid yeast is worth the extra money. This was a check in the yes column!

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Old 08-08-2012, 06:11 PM   #638
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Just out of pure curiosity, what would happen if you used 2 yeasts in the same batch? would one over crowd the other or could they put 2 different spins on how a cider tastes in the end. I'm sure there has to be someone who has tried this.

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Old 08-08-2012, 07:30 PM   #639
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Just out of pure curiosity, what would happen if you used 2 yeasts in the same batch? would one over crowd the other or could they put 2 different spins on how a cider tastes in the end. I'm sure there has to be someone who has tried this.
I've done this once or twice with beer. I've had some success by using two strains that prefer different temperatures. I add both strains simultaneously (from two small, independent starters) at the higher temperature, then let the beer cool gradually over the first week (say, start at 75 and cool to 62).

You could theoretically add two yeasts that ferment at the same temp and have them coexist, but I'm not sure I can think of two strains (at least if we're staying within saccharomyces cerevisiae) that would offer any flavor-related benefit from blending.

Of course, if we're NOT strictly using saccharomyces, things get a lot more interesting... Has anyone tried a brett cider?
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Old 08-19-2012, 02:55 AM   #640
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Anyone have any good results with Trappist yeast?

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