Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > Results from juice, yeast and sugar experiments

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-28-2011, 10:24 PM   #541
CvilleKevin
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 1,250
Liked 75 Times on 37 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

motobrewer - I have never found aeration necessary for cider and suspect that it would increase the likelihood of picking up acetobacter, so I dont do it.

smyrnaquince - interesting... I've had OK results with 71B but not with the WLP720, which I think goes to show that it is all somewhat juice dependent, although I got the same good results (if you like it dry) with the D47.

The ale yeasts are probably not the best for taking to dryness. I tried this with five keg batches three years ago, using S04, Notty and US05. Three ciders and two cysers. They were undrinkable for well over a year. By the 2nd year, they were OK for dry ciders. I still have some left in the kegs and break them out now and then for parties. Wine drinkers like them a lot, but obviously not that much because there is still some left.

I like to have at least one dry cider on tap for a party but aside from those 5 batches I did in 2008, I havent intentionally fermented a cider to dryness in the past 10 years (although I've unintentionally fermented plenty to dryness). S04 makes a great dry cider if you catch it around 1.002, at which point you would swear it is dry by the taste and finish, but it has a lot more flavor than truly dry.

How was the finish on your S04? In my experience, if the cider has a decent finish, then it will almost always get better with age.

I believe the best dry cider I've made was with 3056 yeast last year. I usually crash this yeast at 1.010 or higher, but I waited too long and didnt catch it til 1.002. At first it didnt have much taste, but it had a nice tail. Five months later it was really nice. I tapped the keg at a party and it floated before several of the sweet ones, which really surprised me because normally the dry cider dont get much love from my friends.

__________________
CvilleKevin is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-30-2011, 01:27 PM   #542
Jrod
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Florence, KY
Posts: 133
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Took me the better part of 2 days to read all of this thread. Wow tons of info. Kevin thanks for all of the notes. I love the tasting notes and cider party scoring system in particular.

I was inspired and started a 3 gallon batch on Tuesday night. Pasturized cider (pretty lame tasting actually) with a mix of turbinado and dextrose and Nottingham yeast. The good tasting cider at the local store has preservatives. I may hit up a local orchard to see what I can find.

I think I tossed the yeast in too cold (50ish) and I still have no visible airlock activity after 60+ hours. It's sitting upstairs in the 70 degree living room.

I going to wait it out and see what happens. If nothing in the next day or so. I'll repitch.

Thanks again for sharing all of the info.

-Jared

__________________

Last edited by Jrod; 10-09-2011 at 01:14 PM.
Jrod is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2011, 01:46 AM   #543
smyrnaquince
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Concord, MA
Posts: 569
Liked 18 Times on 16 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

CvilleKevin,

My goal was to make a sweet cider, I just didn't know how until reading your postings in this thread.

I can now refer to my notes. All were fermented to dryness except as noted.

Cold-crashed S-04 OG=1.051, crashed at 1.012): sweet, apple/cherry/fig juice notes, nice flavor all the way through. This carbed a fair bit on its own, so I probably need to do a better job of racking, but we liked the fizz.

S-04 (dry): aroma of grass/pear, mild, close second to D47

For dry ciders, as I said, the D47 came in first. Interestingly enough, the batch that I added sugar to to carbonate was better than the one that I did not. For the latter, the notes are: flat, a little sour, vinegar, acid

The Oddball:

  • 1/2 gal WF apple juice, 1 qt R. W. Knudsen "Just Black Cherry" juice, 1 qt 365 (WF brand) organic lemonade, 1/4 tsp tannin, 1 tsp yeast nutrient, 1/3 vial WLP720
  • OG 1.061, FG 1.005 at bottling 11 days later (I was new and didn't realize it would go further)
  • Best cherry flavor at 1 (sweet), 5 (dry), and 6 (dry) months
  • Months 2 & 3: sweet, lost a lot of cherry (that then came back in month 5)
  • Now (@10 months): cucumber, "Japanese", vegetal, cherry (a little), hint of astringency, would be good with sushi

I plan to use the S-04 this fall for a sweet cider and the D47 for a dry cider.
__________________
smyrnaquince is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-04-2011, 05:50 AM   #544
CvilleKevin
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 1,250
Liked 75 Times on 37 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

I just crashed the last of the batches that were pressed on Sept 19th. It was the WLP041 batch, and I stopped it at 1.015. This has been a great yeast to work with for early season apples. Even with the relatively high temps in my basement, it fermented out nice and slow, which is a real plus when everything else is dropping like a stone. Ever since it hit 1.022, its tasted great - nice and appley although the finish was just a tad sticky until tonight. I thought about letting it go another few points, although I decided not to because I'm trying to get something that tastes close to an experimental batch from the last tasting, which was more of a sweet cider. I'll probabaly be using this again later in the season to check out how it works a little drier.

I kegged the Brupaks and Wy3056 batches a few days ago. These are my two favorites of the bunch and the Wy3056 is SWMBO's favorite. The Brupaks make a tasty pub cider that has a lot of flavor but still manages to feel dryer than it is (1.010). The Wy3056 is a little sweeter and more appley. The finish is a little sweet at 1.016, but not clingy. I took a couple liters of each to a party on Saturday and they were gone in no time.

Man its nice to have fresh cider on tap again! Last season I did manage to save a few kegs through the summer, so I never really ran out, but nothing I had saved is as good as these kegs.

I kegged the US05 with raspberry batch yesterday at 1.000. Thats a lot drier than I meant for it to go. In retrospect, doing an early season batch with ale yeast and raspberries probably wasnt the best idea. Usually I add the raspberries a few days before the crash when the cider is at about 1.010. The sugar bumps up the sg and in a couple days it is back down to 1.008 to 1.010. But with the temps being warm, the cider was already at 1.008 when I added the raspberries. When I checked it again the next day, it had dropped all the way to 1.000. That's pretty much how I make dry ciders these days - by accident. But for a dry cider, its really good. You get a lot of apple tannins at first in the taste, then the raspberry kicks in, then the rest of the apple and it’s a great finish. I havent tried it out on any of my dry drinking friends, but I'm thinking it will be fairly popular. It could use a little more time to mellow, but might not last that long.

The Wy3333 batch didnt come out quite the way I wanted. I've been using Wy3333 and honey to make a bottle conditioned cider using nitrogen reduction. That recipe is succesful in that I've been able to reliably bottle carb with it for two years now without breaking any bottles (knock on wood). The resulting cider is very drinkable, but not my best cyser recipe. A keg carbed Wy1010 cyser tastes a lot better IMHO. So this time I decided to try bumping the WY3333 with sugar instead of honey. It tastes great, but I would not trust this stuff in a bottle. During the crash, it kept blowing the bung out of the carboy. Its still real cloudy. Its at 1.010 and tastes the way I always expected a hefe cider to taste - appley, but also a bit orangy, with some clove. A little yeasty, so I've racked it once already while keeping it in the fridge. I might rack one more time before kegging it. I think this is going to be fairly popular and I really hope thats the case, because this is one that is probably going to have to keep cold to keep from refermenting. Fortunately I can do that now. I'm really liking this fridge. I dont know why I didnt buy something like this 15 years ago - would have saved me from all sorts of cider worries.

I crashed the Wy3068 last night at 1.018. That's another one of SWMBO's favorites. Its nice and juicy. Lots of apple with a hint of clove.

The US05 and S04 batches have finished the crash and have been bulk aging for a few days. The S04 smells real carmelly, good apple with lots of skin in the taste. The US05 batch is a little lighter all around even though both are at the same sg 1.006. Both are nice semi dry pub ciders which I'll probably keg later this week.

All of the ale yeast batches and the Wy3056 got nice and clear in the crash. That's usually what happens although last year it seemed that the ciders took forever to clear for some reason. I'm glad not to see a repeat of that. WY3333 and Wy3068 stayed cloudy, which was not too surprising.

Staymans should be ready in another week or so and I'm already thinking about the next round of keg batches. For the next round, I'm going to try out a technique that I picked up from the guy who runs the cider press. He lets his cider clear a few days and then siphons it off the trub before pitching the yeast. His finished ciders are always crystal clear. I'm not sure how that will affect the taste, so I'm planning on doing 4 batches with cleared cider and 4 batches the regular way. Two batches each of Brupaks, S04, Wy3056 and Wy3068.

__________________
CvilleKevin is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-07-2011, 06:01 AM   #545
CvilleKevin
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 1,250
Liked 75 Times on 37 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default



Kegged the WLP041 batch last night and the Wy3333 batch tonight. Both taste great!

The fermentation on US05 and S04 batches started up again so I crashed them again. Planning on kegging these and the Wy3068 batch tomorrow.

All 8 kegs from the last pressing fit in the fridge. I picked up a 4 way CO2 distributer so I can force carb 4 kegs at once. Life is good, slightly hazy.

I'm planning on tapping these at a party here on Sunday. If you live near central VA and want to check them out, PM me.

just realized this is my 1000th post. Not sure if I should celebrate or check myself in somewhere. Nah.... celebrate wins hands down. that W3333 batch is growing on me
__________________
CvilleKevin is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2011, 10:09 AM   #546
BWN
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dexter, NY
Posts: 700
Liked 20 Times on 19 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I just read the whole thread, I had to work the night shift so it kept me occupied throughout the night. I started reading just to figure out what to do with some fresh pressed unpasteurized cider. Now I want to buy more carboys and cider and start my own experiments.

Before reading this thread all the way through I went to the lhbs and picked up some 71B-1122. I wanted us 05 but they were out and the guy working talked me out of the s -04 because it was 4.95 compared to 1.25 for the 71B. Since I am only doing 2 1 gallon batches I guess it made sense at the time.

Here is my plan: I added a campden tablet to each jug yesterday(after reading this whole thread I see it might not have been necessary). I am going to bump up the OG to 1.060 to 1.065 using corn sugar and brown sugar(its all I have at home) then pitch the yeast and put the jugs in the basement. I am reading the 71B is good for a dry cider, if I stop the fermentation early by cold crashing and racking how will it taste? I wanted to get semi sweet to sweet cider as I was trying to get something similar to woodchuck. Would I be better off letting it ferment out then try and backsweeten with more cider or apple juice and just keep it cold? Or should I back sweeten and pasteurize, or pasteurize when it tastes the way I like it?

After reading this whole thread I am planning on getting 5 gallons and using the s-04 or notty and doing a whole batch but I am ready to get started on these smaller ones now. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

__________________
BWN is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2011, 01:01 PM   #547
CvilleKevin
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 1,250
Liked 75 Times on 37 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Now I want to buy more carboys and cider and start my own experiments
You should do it! Its hard to find comparative info on using various yeasts for cider, even though yeast is generally the greatest determining factor for cider - at least as far as the raw ingredients are concerned. The more data points the better so let us all know how they come out.

Quote:
the guy working talked me out of the s -04 because it was 4.95 compared to 1.25 for the 71B.
Ouch! My LHBS sells S04 for 3.50. Fermentis and Danstar have really jacked their yeast prices in the past couple years. Two years ago S04 was $2.00 and Notty was $1.25. Brupaks is still a good deal, even with shipping from UK

Quote:
I am reading the 71B is good for a dry cider, if I stop the fermentation early by cold crashing and racking how will it taste?
If you are just doing gallons, that could work. In general, champagne, lager and wine (including 71B) dont crash very well, but gallon batches seem to do better. I think maybe because there is less thermal mass they chill faster and deliver more of a shock to the yeast. I doubt you could stop a carboy of 71B by cold crashing.

Quote:
Would I be better off letting it ferment out then try and backsweeten with more cider or apple juice and just keep it cold? Or should I back sweeten and pasteurize, or pasteurize when it tastes the way I like it?
Since you only have 2 gallons, I would just crash them when they are at an SG that tastes good to you, and then just keep them in the fridge. Maybe stop them at different point for comparative purposes. Since 71B is tough to crash, there is a good chance they will still pick up a bit of carb, so you probably should use PET bottles for first few batches.
__________________
CvilleKevin is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2011, 01:14 PM   #548
BWN
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dexter, NY
Posts: 700
Liked 20 Times on 19 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

CvilleKevin, Thanks for the replies. I think I will be trying more batches as I have cider mill about 20 minutes from my house. I will have to wait a few weeks though because I don't have the fridge space to cold crash a carboy so I need to wait and take advantage of the cold weather. I will continue to play around with the 1 gallon batches for now. I have a bunch of empty plastic apple juice bottles that I used to make apfelwein still laying around, is there any reason I can't use those to rack to and store it in? I doubt it will last long if it is even slightly drinkable.

__________________
BWN is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2011, 04:04 PM   #549
CvilleKevin
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 1,250
Liked 75 Times on 37 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
I have a bunch of empty plastic apple juice bottles that I used to make apfelwein still laying around, is there any reason I can't use those to rack to and store it in? I doubt it will last long if it is even slightly drinkable.
Those are fine for fermenting and short term storage as long as you clean and sanitize them
__________________
CvilleKevin is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-09-2011, 06:05 PM   #550
frydogbrews
Registered User
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: nowhere, mo
Posts: 2,756
Liked 46 Times on 46 Posts

Default

just bought 30 gal's of fresh juice from local orchard. mainly mutsu apples with some blushing golden and rome's. 3.7 pH, 7% alcohol/sugar conversion through the refractometer. added acid to three batches, made two batches into cyser with 5 pounds local honey, one cyser with k1v, and one with ec-1118. other batches of dry cider i used k1v, s-04, ec, and the liquid wyeast cider yeast. i want everything dry, as dry as possible. used go ferm hydration nutrient and will be doing staggered nutrient additions with fermaid o. this method has always worked great for me. i also always aerate before pitching and several times throughout the fermenting process. hydrogen sulfide sucks, and by doing this, i seem to avoid it. i do worry about acetobacter, but i do what i can to minimize the chances of that. if it happens, big deal, i have 5 gallons of delicious apple cider vinegar, which i can bottle and use for the next several years.

hit everything with camden, sit for 36 hours before innoculation.
next year i am probably going to do one big batch, around 40 gallons, and then 2 small batches. i drink this stuff like its water and i always have at least one on tap.

favorite part of the weekend is ending the night with a small pour of dry cider. i'll have beer during the day, dry red wine all night, then get tired and a big wine glass full of cider hydrates me and wipes away the dry mouth. wake up, no hangover. it's magic!

__________________
frydogbrews is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Splenda/Honey/Sugar + Rainbow Root beer results Mellman Soda Making 8 03-22-2011 06:49 AM
Walk on the wildside - my wild yeast experiments Reddy Fermentation & Yeast 1 09-13-2009 11:47 PM
Apfelwein experiments (Rasberry, Brown Sugar, Yeast nutrient) unclejimbay Wine Making Forum 4 05-21-2009 04:35 PM
Yeast experiments seanyt Recipes/Ingredients 1 09-13-2008 02:57 PM