My experience with sugar is that the darker the sugar, the more it imparts a butterscotch taste when it ferments out. Whether or not that's a good thing is a matter of taste and what you are going for. I've never used molasses, but my guess is it will give you a very caramel taste. I used Nottingham for all of the sugar tests that I did - other yeasts may produce different flavors with dark sugar. To my taste, a mix of 2/3 natural cane sugar (light turbinado) and 1/3 dextrose is the most neutral tasting, although plain white cane sugar is pretty close
My experience with sugar is that the darker the sugar, the more it imparts a butterscotch taste when it ferments out. Whether or not that's a good thing is a matter of taste and what you are going for. I've never used molasses, but my guess is it will give you a very caramel taste. I used Nottingham for all of the sugar tests that I did - other yeasts may produce different flavors with dark sugar. To my taste, a mix of 2/3 natural cane sugar (light turbinado) and 1/3 dextrose is the most neutral tasting, although plain white cane sugar is pretty close
Thanks one more question. There is a big difference between a fluid ounce and a solid ounce. As a fluid is more so volume which I know 90% of the people here understand being they are well versed with Specific Gravity. So when using honey or molasses I still see people here coining it by lb. Are they weighing the aforementioned or just assuming for convenience sake that fluid Oz's are equivalent to solid?
To take it a step further I did a little research and found out that molasses is about 12.5 pounds to the gallon, same weight as honey, almost. Which would make 200 solid Oz's in a gallon of molasses if my math is not off.
Thanks one more question. There is a big difference between a fluid ounce and a solid ounce. As a fluid is more so volume which I know 90% of the people here understand being they are well versed with Specific Gravity. So when using honey or molasses I still see people here coining it by lb. Are they weighing the aforementioned or just assuming for convenience sake that fluid Oz's are equivalent to solid?
it's by weight. Honey = 1 gal is about 12 lbs. Water = 1 gal is about 8.5 lbs.
Great thread! I am planning on doing a batch of cider soon (sorry for the Noobish question) and all I can get is pasteurized cider. (at $5/gal it isn't too bad). I prefer a semi-sweet cider, much like you. What would you reccomend for yeast and sugar to make your best (favorite) hard cider with pasteurized juice?
I went to Kevin's for a tasting party and out of the 10 tasted (the agenda called for 15, but they were some pretty big samples of 8+% ciders, despite all the food Kevin had given us), the ones with wild yeast were my favorite. At least a few others concurred. In contrast with the others that had a more or less one-dimensional taste (my biggest qualm with ciders in general,) the ones made with wild yeast were definitely interesting while still having less off-taste than some of the others. Kevin suggested that it was due in part to a higher FG that masked those flavors, but I'm curious to try dryer versions.
The batch with wild yeast that we tasted last night came out really good. Out of 4 attempts with wild yeast, this was the best I’ve managed so far. Usually the brewers (and very few others) like the wild yeast batches the best, but pretty much everyone liked this one. I crashed this one at 1.020, where it was just starting to pick up some off flavors, which the sweetness helped balance out (keep in mind that 1.020 is still on the low end of a commercial cider). My brewer friends probably would have liked it better if I let it go another 5pts, but my experience is that below 1.020 is where the off flavors start developing.
On the other hand, I’ve got 5 single gallon batches with wild yeast in progress and these fermented out a lot faster than I thought – they all got down to 1.002 before I checked them a couple days ago, but they don’t taste too bad. Three I cold crashed and two I sorbated. I havent tasted them since stopping fermentation. I don’t think they will be as good as the one we had last night, but these are the first time that I’ve got a wild batch to go below 1.010 without tasting really nasty.
All of the ciders we tasted last night went over well, as did the brews that Mark brought. I had some rating sheets at the tasting and 13 folks remained coherent enough to fill them out so here are the ones that scored the best in order of average popularity:
1) Blend of Red and Golden delicious, Jonagold, Fuji, Empire. Started 10/11/08. Sg 1.052. No extra sugar. Left to ferment out with natural yeast, cold crashed 9 days later at 1.020 and bottled the next day
2) Mostly staymans, mixed with empire, golden delicious, small amount of granny smith. Started 10/9/08. SG 1.042. Sulfited and added 3lbs basswood honey. S04 yeast. Cold crashed 11 days later at 1.010. Let clear for about three more weeks and kegged at 1.010. The basswood honey gave the cyser a nice smokey taste that was a little forward for my taste, but most folks really liked it. I might do half basswood, half clover next time and let go to 1.008
3) (my favorite of this round) Mostly staymans, mixed with empire, golden delicious, small amount of granny smith. Started 10/9/08. SG 1.042. Sulfited and added 4oz turbinado, 2oz dextrose per gallon. US05 yeast. Cold crashed 10 days later at 1.012. Let clear for about three more weeks and kegged at 1.010. Had a great apple ale taste. Could have maybe gone to 1.008
4) Blend of Golden delicious, Jonagold. Started 10/11/08. Sg 1.052. No extra sugar. Didn’t sulfite. Added Nottingham yeast, cold crashed 9 days later at 1.004 and bottled the next day. Not sulfiting produced more of an apple taste and a hint of the wild yeast.
5) Mostly staymans, mixed with empire, golden delicious, small amount of granny smith. Started 10/9/08. SG 1.042. Sulfited and added 4oz turbinado, 2oz dextrose per gallon. Coopers ale yeast. Cold crashed 8 days later at 1.004. bottled a week later. The Coopers had a crisp tart taste.
6) Mostly staymans, mixed with empire, golden delicious, small amount of granny smith. Started 10/9/08. SG 1.042. Didn’t sulftite. added 4oz turbinado, 2oz dextrose per gallon. S04 yeast. Cold crashed 9 days later at 1.008. bottled a week later. Not sulfiting produced more of an apple taste and a hint of the wild yeast.
ColoradoXJ13 – It kinda depends on the juice. Without tasting it, I would go with 3lbs of orange blossom honey (or any other lightly flavored honey you like) and S04 yeast. Its hard to go wrong with that combo and you’ll get a clear finish. If the juice is nicely balanced and you want more of an ale body, bump the sg to 1.060 with 2/3 turbinado and 1/3 dextrose and use US05. If the juice doesn’t have much tartness, Coopers or S23 will give it a little more bite and if its already pretty tart, nottingham usually comes out a little more mellow. In any case, check the sg after 8 days and cold crash wherever you like it – somewhere in 1.004 to 1.010 seems to be where majority of people like it.
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