the temp change causes the volume of liquid to shrink, and can therefore cause suckback of water from your airlock into your beverage
Aha, hm. Yeah, that makes sense.
Well, the water in my air locks is sanitized with no-rinse sanitizer... how long does the sanitizer stay active? I don't actually know what brand. I use Star San, now, but this was a white, powder sanitizer that came with my first brewing kit, unlabeled aside from "Use 1 tbs per gallon. No rinse necessary."
Will this be okay, or should I prioritize getting a solid stopper?
Edit: actually, how long does Star San stay active, too? I know it's an acid-based sanitizer, and my experience with finicky aquariums is that acid-water mixtures don't stay acidic for long, due to "buffering."
Edit 2: nevermind, found some great threads on Star San. Apparently, it has a long shelf life, even diluted. Nice. Not sure about the generic stuff currently in my airlocks, though.
Let me clarify.
I always fermented until the yeast was done, and then backsweetened (to about 1.015-1.018) - same as I do with meads. (I'll try cold crashing this year.)
I generally use Nottingham and I bulk age the batches, often for almost a year. I'm just now bottling last year's cysers. Most of my batches are flavored - raspberries, cherries, lemon spice, vanilla, cinnamon, etc.
So we have very different techniques.
But other brewers (more worldly and well-read than I) have also confirmed that CO2 will inhibit fermentation. I don't think it will stop fermentation, but if you have knocked back the yeast (via either no more sugar or via removing them), it will inhibit their reanimation. It's not an artifact of kegging, cause I often force carbonate my small batches in 2-liter pop bottles. Bigger batches I keg and then bottle.
Pretty sure Nottingham was in the batch that restarted (outside chance it was Cotes de Blanc). Not every bottle restarted, but enough to be an issue.
The fridge batch was wild yeast - it was supposed to be drank fresh but it wasn't. Not great - I won't let that happen again.
I've never added anything before ferment. I've also generally don't add anything at the end either, though that is in flux. I was going to starting adding things after the restarted ferment. But now I will try your cold crash technique.
Also, if I do a (second?) cold crash in the keg, I can suck up the yeasties on the bottom with the first pourings. Then carb and bottle. Btw, I don't counterpressure fill - I just make sure it's really cold.
So you are thiefing out a half-pint at a time to check the gravity? I assume you're not putting that back in the batch.
I like the brew-ball concept, but I need to first figure out where I like ciders done with your technique. 1.010 would be normally a little dry for me, but it sounds like there's more to it than just a number.
I also found that cinnamon is a great way to keep more apple flavor. I don't understand how/why, but I added one stick in one gallon 4 months into the ferment. I just backsweetened and bottled it (yes, it was 10 months old at that point!). It was amazing. Not much cinnamon, but tons of apple in the nose and flavor. I'll experiment more this season.
I also juiced a bunch of crabapples this year and need to figure out how those fit in.
I'd guess the DME is adding some nutrients, hence the issues that you had with it.
My sister lives in Crozet - I'll bring some ciders along the next time I visit her.
I use a Fermtech wine thief - the hydrometer goes inside the unit. I usually save the last ounce or two for a taste sample http://www.homebrewit.com/aisle/p/5432
I've been thinking about adding cinnamon to a test batch - sounds like another good reason to do this.
Also in the interesting adjuncts dept - this last batch I added some raspberries that I got from a friend. But instead of adding them to the secondary, which is what I usually do, I added them to the primary, a few days before I was planning to crash. I figured that crashing would help get rid of the raspberry pulp, which is usually a PIA to get out of the cider. For a couple of days, the raspberry pulp stayed at the top of the carboy, which is what it usually does. Then it sank to the bottom, totally clearing the carboy as it sank. It looked as if I had crashed it, but it was just from the raspberries.
I dont want to bash the DME too much - it didnt really have the effect I was going for, but tasted pretty good in its own right. I split a grolsh with a buddy a couple weeks ago and he liked it better than the cider. I'm going to drink a couple bottles this weekend with some more friends, and if it gets a similar reaction, I'll probably do a keg of it for the next round of juice, even though I wasnt all that crazy about it.
Definitely let me know the next time you are visiting your sister and we can drink a few
I wound up buying that same thief exactly because of this first batch of cider, it was more than worth it.
My batch hit about 1.008 on Monday, and i racked it and stuck it in the fridge, today i noticed what was left in the air lock (i used iodophor water, so it should be fine) was frozen, along with a bit of the cider, but I'm not too worried, yeast should be good and inactive now! Going to rack into keg tonight and carbonate. I tasted at 1.020, and it tasted great and not so hard, at 1.008 it tasted pretty strong, and still great, but very different, not complaining, just informing. I think the girlfriend would have liked it better at 1.020, but i think there will be more for me how it is now :-)
On the airlock; i went with leaving it on in the fridge because i put a stopper on my glass carboy as i was cleaning the plastic one i was about to rack into and the stopper shot about 8 feet in the air about 5 minutes after i put it on. I might give it a try with the plastic BB next time. Another option from this almost sister-thread (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/man-i-love-apfelwein-14860/) was to put vodka in the air lock, so if it gets sucked in, there's really no worries. And if you leave it on in the fridge some WILL get sucked in.
I used an S-shaped air lock in the fridge, and I checked it several times in a 24 hour period. The water level was always pushed up the exit side of the S. If I had gotten any suckback, wouldn't the water level have shifted to the other side, since it would now be tending to push into the fermenter, not out?
As a result, I feel pretty confident I didn't get any suckback. Also, my SG dropped a final .002 in the time it took to cool in the fridge, so I feel like a solid stopper might have shot out...
Maybe the difference is that CK tries to ferment at about 60 degrees? Mine entered the fridge at about 70, so it would've been more active from the get-go.
I have no experience with the S shaped ones, but your logic sounds right. My guarantee of getting suck back was not to be taken literally (i have done this exactly once), but for planning purposes one should always assume it's a given. Plan for the worst.
After crashing in the fridge for 2.5 days, and thawing for 1/2 a day (woops...) i racked into a keg last night and sampled, and boy did the flavor change. It tastes more like the sample i tried at 1.020, the sweetness came back and alcohol taste was still there but much less pronounced, should have let it go dryer for my tastes, but the gf loved it. I'm hoping carbonating it will counter the sweetness a bit. I did not take another sg reading.
Going from a 6 gal carboy to 1 gallon jugs is a little unconventional, but I dont see why it wouldnt work. If you have the gallon jugs and havent pitched the yeast yet, you might want to just start with gallons - that way you can experiment a bit with different yeasts, sugar, sgs etc.
JKS is not easily replicated. Its a natural ferment done at lager temps with a great apple mix (Northern Spy, Cortland and Jonathan) that has been intentionally nitrogen limited and probably sweated to increase sugar content. SG is 1.024 but it doesnt taste all that sweet because the flavor from the natural yeast is so intense that it balances the sugar.
The closest I've had to a JKS was made by the guy who runs the cider mill I use. He used unpasteurized Stayman juice and left it in a 50 gallon barrel in an unheated shed over the winter.
I've had mixed results with natural ferments. I've had some really good ones, but they are a lot of work to keep stable and then crash unless you have a lagering setup. At this point, I've pretty much made up my mind only to do gallon batches for natural ferments from now on, because doing keg batches is so much work. Besides which, I only have a handful of friends who really appreciate a natural ferment. For most folks, a keg of S04, US05, Notty or 3068 really hits the spot, and these are much, much less work.
If you can get good unpasteurized juice, then I'd recommend experimenting around with some ale and wheat yeasts to see what you like. Dont add campden because the natural yeast is what gives JKS and similar farmhouse ciders the distinctive taste.
Wheat yeasts are probably the best for getting the wild flavor because they ferment so slow that the wild yeast leaves a pretty good imprint before the cultured yeast takes over. And the cultured yeast is a lot easier to crash, so you sort of get the best of both worlds. 3068 is more like a Normandy cider. JKS is a little heaver tasting, and I would say the heaviest tasting of the wheat yeasts is the WLP380, bumped up with a little sugar.
Personally, I like something a little lighter - for all the authenticity of a JKS or Normandy cider, its hard to beat S04 crashed at about 1.010 or so. You cant crash the ale yeasts too high though. Above 1.012 or so, they get a sort of sticky sweet taste. Wheat and natural yeasts you can crash at 1.020 or even 1.030 without them tasting overly sticky
Kevin
i just picked up 2 gallons of organic apple juice that i found at whole foods. I looked on the back and it said no preservatives, just apples. It says they have been pasterized, not sure if by heat or uv.
My question is if i let them warm up to room temp and slap an airlock on them will they pick up any wild yeast activity?
secondly, i liked the thought of of using wyeast 3068 or the wlp380 but of course i didnt go to the lhbs for yeast cause i have a fridge full of wlp001 and also nottingham.
Have you tried any batches with the wlp001 and if so how did they turn out and secondly since im going gallon batches do i just pitch the whole contents into the juice or do i divide them up?
I havent decided if im using the notty or not but i want to make sure i dont over pitch.
also if im going for that skrumpy kind of wild flavor, can i let the wild yeast if any present start for a few days and then throw in some other yeast or would i be bettter off just using wild yeast or cultured yeast?
my last batch of cider came out horrible. i used wyeast 4766 and found this thread afterwards. seeing that not many people were a fan should have been a clue. it left the cider so dry and left no flavor at all. we drank half of it but could only drink it when mixing it with fresh cider and it took a lot to get that apple flavor back. sugars did nothing just gave it a sick sweet taste.
__________________
primary:15 minute Cascade Pale Ale
Primary 2: Cream of 3 crops
Primary 3: Sam Adams Holiday Porter Clone
bottled:BM's Blue Balls Belgian Wit
15 Minute Cascade Pale Ale
DryHopped Cream of 3 Crops http://hopville.com/brewer/wcarter1227
Last edited by wcarter1227; 11-06-2009 at 10:24 PM.
Reason: forgot to mention bad yeast
WCarter - any wild yeast that was on the apples in the orchard will have been killed by the pasteurization process. You might get some wild yeast activity from whatever yeast happens to be in your kitchen, but that would be unlikely to come out well.
I havent used wlp001. Notty will do a good job. If you crash it before it hits 1.010 it will taste really good. You might even want crash it higher, depending on taste. JKS is 1.024.
You can pitch a whole packet/vial if you want. The yeast will multiply anyway, so you cant really overpitch. You dont need to use that much tho. I've used as little as 1/5 of a packet and it worked fine, so you can pitch 1/3 or 1/2 and save some. I know saving half packets/vials is not recommended but I've never had a problem doing that for test batches as long as you seal it up quick and use the rest fairly soon.
i just pitched my apple juice and yeast. i took a gravity reading and it was 1.040 so i added some sugar to boost the og. i added a bit too much and got the new og up to 1.080. by stopping around 1.025 give or take should be about 7.21% abv. hopefully the sweetness will balance out the alcohol. probably should have added half the amount of sugar.
on the bright side since i pitched the whole packet of yeast about 2 hours ago there is already a small layer of bubbles building on the surface and its got the orange funky haze to it already.
just got to remember to keep checking the gravity every couple days. i dont want to make rocket fuel.
__________________
primary:15 minute Cascade Pale Ale
Primary 2: Cream of 3 crops
Primary 3: Sam Adams Holiday Porter Clone
bottled:BM's Blue Balls Belgian Wit
15 Minute Cascade Pale Ale
DryHopped Cream of 3 Crops http://hopville.com/brewer/wcarter1227
I'm doing 12 gallons of cider tomorrow with S-04. My celler is 58-60 degrees now. Do you think that will be too cool? How much foaming have you been getting with S-04? I have a 15 gallon fermenter and would go more than 12.5 if the 04 isn't going to blow off too much. Love you info on cider. I read the whole thread tonight. Awesome read!
__________________
Are You Going to Drink all That?
Linear Mode
