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Old 06-03-2009, 06:39 PM   #111
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Hey Kevin et al.,

Great thread! Has anyone reported on using Wyeast 1968 London ESB Ale™ in a cider? Given it's low attenuation and high floccuation, I'm thinking of using this is my next batch and then force carbing. I'm - like everyone else here - looking for that killer combo of a hint of sweetness and some mild carbonation.

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Old 06-03-2009, 08:40 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
Hey Kevin et al.,

Great thread! Has anyone reported on using Wyeast 1968 London ESB Ale™ in a cider? Given it's low attenuation and high floccuation, I'm thinking of using this is my next batch and then force carbing. I'm - like everyone else here - looking for that killer combo of a hint of sweetness and some mild carbonation.
Wyeast 1968 is the same thing as WLP002, which is reported on in the original post. I've used the WLP one and I've found nearly no difference between this one and s-04 dry yeast when used in cider. If you want a very interesting english yeast in cider, try the WYeast 1275: Thames valley. this one leaves awesome fruit flavors, and it's becoming my favorite.
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:28 PM   #113
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I cold crash for at least 24 hours. Longer (two or three days) if I can, but often I am trying to stop several carboys at once, and only have room for one at a time in the fridge.

Did you take starting and final SG readings? I would recommend letting the cider sit at room temp for a few days after cold crashing, especially since you crashed after 3 days. My experience that the cold crash will stop just about any yeast if you are doing gallon batches, but I've never used that yeast before. If you've already bottled, I'd keep the bottles chilled until your drink them, just in case.
I just opened the last bottle today and took an SG reading. At the start it was about 1.05 and at the end about 1.01 which seems to put it about 5.25 alcohol. It tasted pretty good, but a colleague noticed a slight taste to it, and I think it might be a little bit of a bread-y/yeast-y taste.

I'm looking forward to the next batch, using some honey and the ale yeast.

I thought that the yeast might start back up if I let the cider get back to room temp after the cold crash. But you're saying that the yeast won't start again, right? I did keep the bottles cold after the cold crash though, and everything worked out just fine.
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:34 PM   #114
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Brad – cold crashing will remove most types of yeast, especially if you are doing gallon batches. Rack the cider before cold crashing – this will get rid of the trub on the bottom. After 24 hrs (or longer if you have the time) of cold crashing, you will see a fine layer of new deposit on the bottom. This is the yeast (plus other solids that drop during crashing). Racking again into a clean container will leave the yeast behind. Don’t try to get every last drop on the 2nd rack because you don’t want to suck up any sediment, which will contain dormant yeast. After that, you can let the cider go to back up to room temp and it will be stable for storage.

So far, I have found that cold crashing gallon batches will eliminate all the yeasts that I have tried. For keg batches I’ve had trouble with a couple of yeasts (Wyeast 4184 and Saflager S23). I think that’s because the carboy doesn’t cool down as fast as a single gallon, not all of the yeast drops to the bottom and these two yeasts are a little more tenacious than the others. There are probably others as well that don’t flocculate at low temps. If you are using pasteurized juice, its probably a good idea to crash for an extra day or two, to get any yeast which binds to the pectin. That may have been where the yeast taste was coming from. An extra few days will also help it get more clear.

Freezeblade – Thanks for the tip on the WYeast 1275, which I’ve added to the list of ones that I want to experiment with next season (which keeps growing longer). I’m planning to do a couple of gallon batches of each at the beginning of the season, and maybe some keg batches if the first round comes out good. Here’s the list so far. If anyone has any experience with these, I’d be interested in how they came out.

Safbrew T-58
Safale K-97

Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale Yeast.
Wyeast 1098 British Ale Yeast
Wyeast 1272 American Ale Yeast II
WYeast 1275: Thames valley
Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale Yeast.
Wyeast 1010 American Wheat Yeast.
Wyeast 3056 Bavarian Wheat Yeast.
Wyeast 3333 German Wheat Yeast.
Wyeast 3942 Belgian Wheat Yeast.

WLP001 California Ale Yeast.
WLP005 British Ale Yeast.
WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast
WLP380 Hefeweizen IV Ale Yeast.
WLP028 Edinburgh Scottish Ale.
WLP565 Belgian Saison I Yeast.

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Old 06-19-2009, 06:53 PM   #115
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Five more kegs …. Just a memory now



Had a party a couple of weeks ago and floated another three kegs (the ones in the buckets). All three were a little drier than I ideally like, but still very nice. From left to right:

Yorks and Fujis, pressed on Jan 5th. SG 1.050 and pH 3.9. No k-meta, S04 ale yeast, with 1 ½ lbs of basswood honey and 1 ½ lbs of clover honey to boost SG to 1.065. Crashed 34 days later, at 1.002, which was a little drier than I wanted to go. It took a while for it to develop a decent body. At four months it was thin tasting, but by 6 months, it was good to go. The basswood honey gives it a nice smoky taste, but can be overpowering, which is why I used half clover on this batch. That seems like the right ratio.

Yorks and Fujis, pressed on Jan 5th. SG 1.050 and pH 3.9. No k-meta. US05 ale yeast with 3lbs of wildflower honey to boost SG to 1.065. Crashed 36 days later at 1.006. It smelled a little sulfury up through about month four, but by six months the sulfur smell was gone. It tasted like a slightly drier version of a Woodchuck Granny Smith and was the first keg to float.

Staymans and Winsaps, pressed on Oct 30th. SG 1.050. pH 3.7. Used half the normal k-meta. Wyeast 4184 with 3oz turbinado, 1 1/2 oz dextrose per gallon to boost SG to 1.060. I crashed it 14 days later at 1.002, at which point it was very tasty with a nice complexity, but the fermentation did not stop. By December it had dropped to 1.000 and was really raw tasting. It was drinkable by March, but took until June to get really good. Not as sweet as the other two, but a more interesting taste. My wine drinking friends liked this one a lot, although it was the last keg to float. Next season I am planning to use the 4184 again and not bother trying to cold crash it – just let it go dry and see if it shapes up by the following summer.

The two kegs at the end of the bar are the ones that I miss the most. They were both from the York and Fuji batch, with no k-meta. I had them on tap in the fridge for a couple of months and finished them up just before the party.

S04 ale yeast, with 3lbs of white sage honey to boost SG to 1.065. Crashed 35 days later at 1.008, at which point it was good to drink, although I waited a couple more months before tapping it. Great smell, taste and body, with just a hint of the honey taste. It was one of the few ale yeast batches of this season that my girlfriend liked.

US05 ale yeast, with 18oz turbinado and 9 oz dextrose, to bump SG to 1.060. Crashed 26 days later at 1.004, at which point it was good to drink, although I waited a couple more months before tapping it. This was one of my favorites. Good body, somewhat of a beery taste. I can see how US05 would go good with some DME. It didn’t clear quite as well from the cold crash as did the cysers though.

That leaves me with just 7 kegs left out of 29 keg batches from last season. And unfortunately, none of them are drinkable now, although I’m hoping they will shape up by the end of the summer.

The carboy on the left back shelf is from the York Fuji batch with S23 lager yeast, and 18oz turbinado and 9 oz dextrose, to bump SG to 1.060. I let this one go a little too far before crashing – all the way down to 1.000, which is too dry for my taste, but it has a good fruit finish and decent complexity. Its still really raw tasting, more than six months later, but the finish gives me hope that this will come around.

The carboy on the right is also from the York Fuji batch with wild yeast, no extra sugar. Crashed at 1.004. I let this one go too far also. Six months later, it’s really sour and lacking in body. Its not as funky tasting as some of the wild yeast batches I’ve done, so I’m still hoping that it will come around.

The five batches in kegs are all from Jonathan apples, with the normal dose of k-meta. Three have sugar and Nottingham, S04 and US05 yeast. Two with clover honey and Nottingham and S04 yeast. I let them all dry completely out, which so far is looking like a bad idea. They are all very bitter tasting. The Jonathans are pretty tart to begin with, so probably wasn’t a very good juice choice for letting go all the way dry. Also, I used a full dose of k-meta on these, which probably doesn’t help things much. The only thing that is giving me hope is that last year I let a couple of keg batches get too dry and they tasted a lot like these. It took them until August to get drinkable, but they did finally shape up and taste pretty good.

Fortunately I saved about 90 liters, mostly from various experimental batches, plus a couple liters from each of the keg batches. So I’m not completely dry. My plan was to drink these all at tastings to see how the various recipes hold up over time. Although if one of these keg batches doesn’t shape up quick, I might have to break into my tasting stash.

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Old 06-25-2009, 07:47 AM   #116
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Last Friday, some friends came over and we checked out 16 batches of cider, with varying amounts of k-meta before and after fermentation, also comparing cold crashing vs. sorbate. The batches were all from the same juice, pressed on Oct 30th and bottled in late November. (see page 11 for details). They have been aging a little over six months now, stored in the basement at room temperature.

They were all bottled still. A couple of the cold crashed bottles made a slight puff when opened, but they were all essentially flat - I could discern no carbonation over the past six months (I wasn’t expecting any carbonation, since I cold crashed or sorbated all of them)

A dozen folks were good enough to fill out rating sheets. The results were interesting. There was a lot more variability in scores than I expected.

The biggest variability was whether people liked the sorbate or not. The batches that were stopped with sorbate still have a very prominent sorbate taste that is easily discernable six months after bottling. It tastes to me something like vanilla and cinnamon – something like you might taste in a spiced rum. Some people liked it, some hated it and some were ambivalent.

Most everyone agreed that two of the sorbated batches were particularly bad – they had a geranium smell which I’m pretty sure came from not adding enough k-meta at the end before the sorbate. These were the two that had no k-meta before fermentation and only 1/3 or ½ of the recommended k-meta dose at the end, before adding the sorbate. The sorbated batch that got the best average score had no k-meta added before fermentation and the full recommended dose at the end, before adding the sorbate.

I really wanted to like the sorbated batches, because it’s a lot easier than cold crashing, but the taste just wasn’t working for me. I was hoping it would get better over time, but that doesn’t seem to be the case so far. On the plus side, the sorbated bottles were brilliantly clear, and there were quite a few people who either liked or were OK with the taste.

The two batches with the best average scores were both cold crashed with a half dose of k-meta and no sorbate. The highest scoring had ½ dose of k-meta added before fermentation, none at the end. The second had no k-meta added before fermentation and ½ dose at the end.

Personally, I still prefer the taste of either no k-meta at all or else adding a small amount at the end and none in the beginning before fermentation.

I still have one bottle left of each of these batches. I’ll give them another six months and see how they compare after a full year of aging.

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Old 06-26-2009, 09:43 PM   #117
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Not to get all fancy, but I was thinking that when I do my next batch, I'd bump up the IG with some pure maple sugar. But I haven't found anywhere that gives a good guide on the pts. lb/gal on various types of syrup. Has anyone tried this? I'm curious what kind of flavor/ how much flavor could be imparted in the cider.

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Old 06-27-2009, 02:16 AM   #118
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This post has some interesting info on using maple syrup. No word yet on how it came out
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/how-...e-syrup-97274/

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Old 06-27-2009, 04:34 PM   #119
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Kevin, we'll try to make it tomorrow. It's officially our due date, but I don't think the boy has any plans to join us just yet. I might have a Wine Guild board meeting, but I'd still really like to stop by and check out the new lineup.

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Old 06-29-2009, 11:18 PM   #120
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Nice thread. I've tried cider a couple of times, unsuccessfully. Always came out too dry. I think I can now pick through your results and find something that will work for my tastes.

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