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Old 11-15-2012, 10:01 PM   #11
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nice one one just had a read through that sticky, good guide. So basically once i'm at correct gravity, stop or rather slow the fermenting , by means of cold crash then bottle up and pasteurize. I take it they dont all have to go in fridge once this process has been done they could just be stored away to age in a cupboard or under the stairs?

So what temp does it need to go down to to slow the ferment down enough to then bottle up ready for pasteurization?

just checked website from where i got the juice and it has been pasteurized proir to bottling, is this going to affect the method im going to be using? i.e type of yeast etc



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Old 11-16-2012, 02:37 PM   #12
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Naw, pasteurization shouldn't affect fermentation, but according to some, it may affect taste. Not in a bad or good way, it will just taste different than it would had you used non-pasteurized juice (which is explained in another sticky on here "results from juice, sugar and yeast experiments"). As for cold crashing, the reason I'm recommending this step is not because you need to slow or stop fermentation before bottling, but because cold crashing makes all the suspended yeast and fruit solids fall and settle to the bottom. This step isn't absolutely necessary, but I would recommend it for a cleaner cider.

One other thing though. I see it says "cloudy cider". You may want to add some pectin enzyme about a 12-24 hours before pitching the yeast. Just to allow at least most of the pectins to fall out of solution. Again, this is an optional step though.



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Old 11-16-2012, 08:02 PM   #13
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nice one one just had a read through that sticky, good guide. So basically once i'm at correct gravity, stop or rather slow the fermenting , by means of cold crash then bottle up and pasteurize. I take it they dont all have to go in fridge once this process has been done they could just be stored away to age in a cupboard or under the stairs?

So what temp does it need to go down to to slow the ferment down enough to then bottle up ready for pasteurization?

just checked website from where i got the juice and it has been pasteurized proir to bottling, is this going to affect the method im going to be using? i.e type of yeast etc
As far as getting a semi-sweet still cider, bottle pasturizing is neither the only or the easiest way to go.

I'm thinking sulfites might be best for you. But there is a thread on sweet cider that you might want to read through:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/pls-read-i-want-sweet-carbonated-cider-282841/

It shows you more options then just bottle pasturizing.

As for how cold to go during cold crashing, I’d try to keep the temperature between 39°F and 21°F. I am not sure if you can successfully cold crash much above 39°F. Most people who cold crash, do so in a refrigerator and that is a typical fridge temperature. Try to keep the temp above 21°F to avoid freezing (based upon a 7% ABV). The remaining sugars and apple bits will bump that number down a bit more, maybe 19-15°F, but I say 21°F just to be safe. A few hours below that won’t do any harm, so I’m talking about average temp. (If anyone has anything to add, or correct on this, please do so)

As for pasturizing picking the yeast, that shouldn't matter too much as far as which one you can cold crash with. Stay away from turbo yeast (probably pretty obvious) and any yeast with an alcohol tollerance lower then what you are aiming for. Other then that, take a look at the characteristic of each yeast and decide what you like best.

I have researched it a lot, and I am still sorting out what I like best. I think it really comes down to trial and error, but having an idea of the characteristic of each yeast does cut down on the guess work! I found this site helps a lot, but also check out the info sheets on each yeast on the manufacture's webpage.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp

Good luck
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:56 PM   #14
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As far as getting a semi-sweet still cider, bottle pasturizing is neither the only or the easiest way to go.

I'm thinking sulfites might be best for you. But there is a thread on sweet cider that you might want to read through:
Maybe not the easiest or only, but it is the most effective. As stated earlier, sulfates will NOT kill a commercial yeast (they are very resistant to sulfites). I mean I guess you could just use sulfites, but you would have to use way more than the taste thresh hold. So it would impart a weird flavor in your cider.

Potassium Sorbate also will not stop fermentation either. It doesn't kill yeast, it prevents them from reproducing. So in an active fermentation, it won't have an effect.

Sounds like you want a traditional English semi-dry cider with minimal artificial additives. In that case, bottle pasteurization is your best bet.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:33 PM   #15
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Sounds like you want a traditional English semi-dry cider with minimal artificial additives. In that case, bottle pasteurization is your best bet.
exactly what im aiming for

at the moment temp at night don't dip much below 3-4 deg C , but it will get colder, i hope!

getting the juice this tuesday , over weekend will order my yeast and sterilize my bucket etc ready for brewing.

I don't mind having a cloudy cider not too fussed how it looks, its more about the taste for me.

alot of food for thought there, but it seems cold crashing is going to be my best option, might even see if i can borrow a fridge off someone in case its not cold enough outside.

How long would it need to cold crash, overnight be long enough? is there any way to tell when its actually crashed so to speak?
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:43 PM   #16
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exactly what im aiming for

How long would it need to cold crash, overnight be long enough? is there any way to tell when its actually crashed so to speak?
I'd crash in the primary overnight, rack into a secondary, and crash one more night. For my liking of a clear cider, I'd leave the secondary in cold storage for another 3-4 days (not to mention one more racking and a few more days), but since you don't mind a cloudy cider, just another night would do. You will see it clear up quite a bit after the first crash, then a little more after the second crash. One might do just fine, but 2 makes sure all the suspended yeast sink to the bottom... And as you probably already know, too much suspended yeast not only looks a little strange, but can make your cider taste a little "yeasty" as well.
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Old 11-17-2012, 04:43 PM   #17
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so what your saying is rack into a secondary before bottling? suppose i could put into my keg as secondary before bottling if thats what you mean, but as you say not necessary.

I just checked the OG and its at around 1.058 so no extra sugar needed then.
If i'm correct and take the FG to 0.990 the abv will be around 8.9% so maybe take it down to around 1.000? so its not quite as strong athough if i were to take it down that much it would be very dry, wouldnt it?

now i'm thinking maybe 1.058 down to 1.010 ? which when using abv calculator gives me a final abv of 7.3% which i assume would be medium-dry?

Just had a thought though, i checked the OG of cold juice, which will give a different reading right? as to if it were warmer?

So i'm just now looking at the yeast to buy Safale S-04, English Ale Yeast , 11.5g sachet which says does 5 gallon (UK) when i'm doing 5.5 gallons ,less or more that is the question.. best get 2 just in case.

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Old 11-17-2012, 07:09 PM   #18
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Yea, I would definitely check the cider at room temp. And you dont really HAVE to do a secondary crash, I'm just kind of anal about clearing my cider as much as possible. Mine was at 1.057 and I dried it out to 1.002, giving me an abv of 7.2% (went a little further than I wanted, but it still retained a lot of apple flavor). Not going for a syrupy-sweet cider, but I do want sweet/tart cider (which is why I used so many winesap apples). So I'm going to backsweeten with a can of frozen apple juice concentrate from the grocery store, maybe a cup of light brown sugar, and half a gallon of store bought apple juice to bring down the abv a bit.

Though bringing my cider down to 1.002 still retained the apple flavor, it was much too dry for my liking. I mean dryer than any English cider i have ever had, but still not quite a "white wine" dry. I would taste it at about 1.010 and see how you like it. If it's still too sweet, you can always still dry it uot a bit more before exposing to the cold.

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Old 11-17-2012, 07:50 PM   #19
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yeah think I will do just that ,see what it's like at 1.010 , I can't stand sweet cider.

when making your primer would you just use say 1 ltr of juice ,add spoon of sugar then add yeast and leave over night before adding to main batch?

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Old 11-17-2012, 08:56 PM   #20
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yeah think I will do just that ,see what it's like at 1.010 , I can't stand sweet cider.

when making your primer would you just use say 1 ltr of juice ,add spoon of sugar then add yeast and leave over night before adding to main batch?

I'd say like 16 oz (500ml I think). A whole liter isn't necessary. And neither is the sugar. Do you have yeast nutrient?


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