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Old 06-21-2008, 06:28 AM   #11
jacobdaughtry
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Originally Posted by Pogo View Post
Hmmm...three weeks out and already has a SG of 0.095!

That seems like a short and sweet process that you have assembled there.

What were the yeast, sugar and temperature that you used?

Others posted that when using a cloudy cider going in, it is still cloudy when finished, was your cider cloudy at the start?

Thanks,

Pogo
Used Montrachet yeast, 2 lbs...

You're right. It was toooo short. I am not fermenting at temps that are appropriate. My fermenting room ranges from 75-77. Coolest I can get it. It fermented so quickly b/c of this. I am working on making a cool/fermentation chamber. It fermented so quickly b/c of this.

It went in cloudy and came out cloudy into secondary.

I am gonna let it set for about another month or two, then transfer it maybe to bottle.

Thinking of just keeping it flat. I was actually thinking about putting it back in the Publix plastic bottles it came in. Has anyone done this before?
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:38 AM   #12
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Don't transfer to secondary, it's not necessary. By racking, you're just exposing it to more oxygen, with no gain in return. Just leave it in the primary, and try to forget about it. When it's absolutely crystal clear, you can start thinking about bottling.
Maybe I am in the beer brewing mode of thinking, but doesn't it have to be transferred to secondary around 3-4 weeks. If not, won't autolysis begin to occur and cause off flavors?

Thanks,
JD
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Old 06-21-2008, 02:40 PM   #13
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Thanks for the data, someone ought to start database threads for apfelwein ciders catagorized by the yeast used.

EdWort's 'I love...' thread has tons of great statistics, but they are pretty much inaccessable, even using the search feature, due purely to the huge volume of data.

Anyway, being new to brewing, I see a short fermenting time as being desirable. Then the aging/conditioning process begins. To me this offers great flexability as to bottling, kegging, etc.

If there is flaw to my above logic, someone please let me know!

I think that EdWort posted that keeping apfelwein in the primary was OK out to 9 months, and even longer. It just gets better.

Putting it back into the original jugs would have to be OK if you stick a stopper with an airlock into the mouth of each jug. I checked the bottom of my jugs, generic 100% Apple Juice from the dollar store, RubyKist on the lable, and they are all coded as #1 plastic (PET), the same as a Better Bottle.

This would allow one to free up a carboy, while keeping the aging process going (it will just get better, right?) uninterupted.

I'm two weeks into a 5 gallon batch, in a glass carboy, using EC-1118 (I'm trying to avoid the rotten egg smell), and have decided to brew another 5 gallons out in the garage using the original juice bottles, fitted with airlocks, while keeping them in a large plastic Coleman cooler to keep the temperature in the seventies. It can hit the 90's easily here in the summer.

Thanks again,

Pogo

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Old 06-21-2008, 03:09 PM   #14
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Anyway, being new to brewing, I see a short fermenting time as being desirable. Then the aging/conditioning process begins. To me this offers great flexability as to bottling, kegging, etc.

If there is flaw to my above logic, someone please let me know!
Well, kind of. More active yeast do stuff faster, so they would presumably move onto to cleaning up/conditioning sooner, though they don't do this en masse. However, high fermentation temps will also give them more off-flavors to clean up, so you're giving them more work to do. Apfelwein just isn't very fast- cheap, tasty and easy, yes, but it takes a while. I've got a fermenter dedicated to the stuff so I can have enough stock to let it age properly. If you like it, I highly recommend the 20 buck investment in a dedicated better bottle.
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:08 PM   #15
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elkdog -

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If you like it, I highly recommend the 20 buck investment in a dedicated better bottle.
Oh, I DO agree, but all things in due time.

On my next trip to Huntsville, I plan on picking up 4 or 5 of those $12.99 each, glass 6 gallon carboys. The evolving research on all of these different plastics is scaring me. A one time batch in, esentially free, PET bottles is one thing, but paying more for BB's than glass, as I look down the road at years of use, I'm pretty leary at this point.

I look at brewing this cider/wine in their own jugs as kind of like a boy scout challenge. I can see all kind of advantages in perfecting a small batch system of brewing.

Anyway, it's not that I'm seeking the fastest method of brewing JUSTfor the sake of tipping a mug in the most direct way possible. I fully intend to let it work for at least 12 weeks, minimum.

But, the majority of post in the 'Man, I love...' thread are saying, "...it's been 6 weeks and it's still cloudy...I still have activity in the airlock...it's full of bubbles after 10 weeks...it still hasn't cleared after 3 months...it's not settling after 9 weeks...should I go ahead and bottle...what should I do?

I want to find a yeast, and a temperature, that when using clear 100% Apple Juice, will finish fermentation, foul odor free, clear, and will ferment down to a FG of 0.999 or less at 3 weeks, or even less.

Again, not so that I can get into it as soon as possible, but so that I can then let it do its job in my choice of containers, as it is convienent to me.

Thanks,

Pogo
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:21 PM   #16
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Pogo-

Sorry, didn't mean to make you out to be a hooch-maker, and it's clear that you're trying to make good stuff here. My first batch of apfelwein, in the winter, took 2 months to ferment at about 60 F, but tasted great after 3 weeks in the bottle. My most recent one, at 75 F, took three weeks, but is probably going to need at least a month of conditioning to taste as nice as that first batch did right off the bat. I still prefer the faster ferment, because it's easier to store bottles and I can get another batch fermenting.

As for the odor, I got it big time on the most recent batch (using montrachet), so I can't offer any advice there. I think in the monster thread there are some indications that certain brands of juice do better, but I ferment in my basement so it's not a particular problem for me- I didn't notice it at the lower fermentation temp, but that took forever to ferment out.

As for better bottles, I brew upstairs and ferment downstairs. Carrying 5 gallons of beer down the basement steps is a lot less frightening with a shatter-proof container, and the same goes for cleaning them out. That is the beginning and end of my reasons for using better bottles.

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Old 06-21-2008, 06:27 PM   #17
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A one time batch in, esentially free, PET bottles is one thing, but paying more for BB's than glass, as I look down the road at years of use, I'm pretty leary at this point.
I used to feel that way, then I bought a BB. Then I bought more. Now my glass sits untouched, I want no part of it.
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Old 06-21-2008, 09:17 PM   #18
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Hey guys -

Thanks for the feedback.

It took me over three weeks, but I read the whole 'Man, I love...' thread from bow to stern. I do recall several posts saying that by adding yeast nutrient, or energizer, to Montrachet yeast, it eliminated the rotten egg smell, and several other yeasts, EC-1118 being one, did not generate the smell at all. My next batch, I intend to try the Montrachet with the nutrient added.

Believe me, I understand the safety advantage of plastic when lugging a heavy glass carboy up and down and around. But, chemically, glass has already passed the years of time testing, and is still good to go.

And, I realize that the #1 code for the PET plastic that is used in BB's is the BEST quality plastic by "today's" standards. But, what about five or ten years down the road. How will it measure up then.

A year or so ago, researchers we saying that everyone in America has traces of Teflon in ther bodies, from eating food prepared using Teflon coated cookware. Everyone! But, as yet, no known side effects have been attributed to it. But, what about tomorrow?

A couple of months ago, the news said that the new reusable Eddie Bauer Lexan (a very expensive high grade plastic) water bottle that I had just bought to eliminate using the disposable water bottles that were impacting the world's environment, was highly toxic if used even one time.

You guys go ahead with the PET plastic, I'll be dragging along way back in the rear clinging to the old fashioned way. I'm even gonna start looking for glass gallon jugs to use with my future mini-batch sessions.

Thanks,

Pogo

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Old 06-21-2008, 10:39 PM   #19
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You guys go ahead with the PET plastic, I'll be dragging along way back in the rear clinging to the old fashioned way.
That's cool, and you're not alone in that sentiment by any means. Hey, I thought that way a long time...I took pride in the "purity" of an all glass brewery.

Still, I would suggest keeping a tourniquet handy whenever you're brewing.
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Old 06-22-2008, 12:37 AM   #20
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You guys go ahead with the PET plastic, I'll be dragging along way back in the rear clinging to the old fashioned way.
My plan is to use the BB until I can upgrade to SS conicals. I've been looking at the MiniBrew, but may just bite the bullet and buy one SS a year until I have three, which is likely the most I'll have working at one time.

Rick
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