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Old 11-28-2012, 04:24 AM   #1
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Anyone make any Perry's?

Anyone ever tried this?

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Old 11-29-2012, 07:55 AM   #2
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Been trying to source pear juice that will make a decent perry. Sir Perry is not perry. Its fermented pear juice that is about 25% perry pear and the rest is just whatever was cheap at the time and sugar. Its then filtered, sweetened, and force carbed.

I had real a few real and realish perrys while in England. I can't remember the names of most of them but most real perry these days is either still or cask conditioned. In the old days they would use a process called keeving to make a sweet sparking variety but that is very rare. If you can get magners that was the most common commercial variety sold in London but its barely better then Sir Perry.

Sadly all I can get her is Sir Perry... Though there are a few decent localish pear wines that are similar to still perry they are about $20 a bottle.

If you just use dessert pear juice (the kind of pears at the grocery store) it will ferment down to 0.990 or lower and be completely flavourless. You can then stabilize that add more unfermented pear juice, keg and force carb to get a product similar to Sir Perry. <Gags a little>


Edit: its hard to find perry pear juice in north america because perry pears are nearly inedible until they are mashed/pupped up, aged and juiced like cider apples are. Even then the juice is very bitter until its fermented out. Since the primary pear market here is for eating and canning perry pears are not grown commercially here.

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Old 11-29-2012, 11:23 AM   #3
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I made one recently that turned out pretty good. Just pressed 3 buckets of pears that a friend had in his yard. No idea what kind they are but they are as hard as baseballs and have virtually no taste. I ended up with about 3 gallons of pear wine that actually turned out pretty good, especially considering it cost almost nothing to make.

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Old 11-29-2012, 03:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DroolingNeoBrewery
its hard to find perry pear juice in north america because perry pears are nearly inedible until they are mashed/pupped up, aged and juiced like cider apples are. Even then the juice is very bitter until its fermented out. Since the primary pear market here is for eating and canning perry pears are not grown commercially here.
Hi DroolingNeoBrew
Can I call you DNB? I type one finger at a time.... Lol
So, do you think I will have a descent pear cider if I do this:
2gallons of pear juice (Santa Cruz organics) and one gallon of apple in a glass carboy, D47 yeast
Kind of cold in my house probably about 60° So I'm going to put a little heating pad under the carboy Like the guy at the brew shop told me to do.
Then I'm going to let it fully ferment (8 weeks??)
Then I'm going to transfer it to a second carboy to get out some of the sentiment... Then I guess I'm supposed to let it sit in that carboy for another 4 to 6 weeks? Is this the secondary fermentation? Then mix my corn sugar and water together with the fermented pair in the bottling bucket And bottle?

I'm very very new, And have hearing people talk about Camden tablets And malolactic fermentation In the secondary? I'm also told that the malolactic culture is very expensive And I do not have too much money to play with for this batch? But all do it if the difference in cider will be great!
If I'm still learning and don't want to get too complicated but want a good pair cider what should I do?
Does my process seem somewhat correct?
Would you add or remove anything to this process I have?
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:38 PM   #5
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One word of advice from my own sad experience: don't try to carb cider in bottles (esp if you plan on back-sweetening). It's only truly safe in a keg.

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Old 11-30-2012, 01:08 AM   #6
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Yah the only safe bottle carbed cider will be very (read mouth puckeringly) dry before the first 12 months of ageing. Maybe peak around 2 years. And for the love of beer use plastic bottles! Cider grenades would really suck, could be a lot more force behind it then beer.

If you want a quick simple cider and cannot keg carb I would do more of a still pear wine and use potassium sorbate (follow directions for package it varies) to stabilize it when ferments out. and save 1/2 g of the pear juice to back sweeten. You will want to use something like isinglass to clear it at the end too.

I would do this (if apples didn't make me very ill):

Pear Wine 2.5g (in a 3 g carboy)
1.5 g pear
1 g apple
1-2# corn sugar
1 tsp yeast nutrient
d-47 yeast (this is a good choice as this yeast retains the fruit character more then other yeasts)

Once fermented out stabilize with potassium sorbate and add the rest of your pear juice.

Let that sit for a couple weeks and add isinglass (follow directions for package it varies) if not clear enough.

Bottle once clear.

You may also want to add wine makers acid blend before bottling to make sure its acidic enough, buts that's optional.

Don't bother yourself with malolactic fermentation. This is a bacteria that will turn malic acid into lactic acid. This is mostly done with big red wines to soften them. Its also tends to be the cause of migraines for people who get migraines from red wine and not other type of alcohol. It can also take a few months to complete I believe. I don't think it will add anything to your cider.

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Old 11-30-2012, 01:43 AM   #7
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Whoa, lotta misinformation flying around this thread.

It is totally possible to carb cider in glass bottles safely, doesn't have to be a dry cider either. Research the use of unfermentable sugars or bottle pasteurization via the sticky at the top of the cider section. People have been sparkling cider & perry in bottles for hundreds of years. There is even evidence that in-bottle carbonation developed specifically for cider.


Don't get too hung up on malo-lactic fermentation when it comes to perry. While it can be a great tool when used in moderation, it is in no way necessary to make a delicious pear cider.

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Old 11-30-2012, 03:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBreton
Whoa, lotta misinformation flying around this thread.

It is totally possible to carb cider in glass bottles safely, doesn't have to be a dry cider either. Research the use of unfermentable sugars or bottle pasteurization via the sticky at the top of the cider section. People have been sparkling cider & perry in bottles for hundreds of years. There is even evidence that in-bottle carbonation developed specifically for cider.

Don't get too hung up on malo-lactic fermentation when it comes to perry. While it can be a great tool when used in moderation, it is in no way necessary to make a delicious pear cider.
Thanks LeBreton!
I had a feeling because I bottle carbonated before. And all the guys at the brew shop said it was totally okay as long as I fermented the cider out all the way

So if I'm doing 2 gallons of pear juice and 1 gallon of apple how much sugar should I add?

& in my 6 gallons of apple, how much brown sugar or sugar should I add?

I seem to remember adding some sugar along with a can of pineapple juice and the yeast In my first batch?
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:31 PM   #9
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Adding sugar to a fruit juice based product to increase the ABV is called 'capitalization', and the amount of chapitalization depends on what the original gravity of the juice is, balanced by your desired ABV, how much original fruit flavor you want to retain, and how long you will have to age the product if dry or how much backsweetening will have to occur. The more sugar added originally, the higher the ABV, the less fruit flavor, and the boozier your cider/perry will taste before aging or the more you will have to backsweeten if you want it young. With less sugar added, you get a lower ABV, more flavor from your fruit, and a lighter drink that will be ready dryer sooner or will need less backsweetening.

I'm something of a purist (for the US ) and don't like to add sugar when I can avoid it. When raw sugar ferments, the alcohol produced creates a very different tasting, thin, and rather harsh booze when compared to fruit juice fermentation.

If my first readings are in the 1.050 - 1.060 range then I don't add any sugar since it'll be in the 6.5%-8% range. If the OG is below 1.050 then rather than using sugar I'll raise it by adding apple concentrate.

Here's a nice chapitalization calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/chaptalization-calculator/

and an SG to Brix converter: http://www.brewersfriend.com/brix-converter/

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Old 11-30-2012, 02:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeBreton
Adding sugar to a fruit juice based product to increase the ABV is called 'capitalization', and the amount of chapitalization depends on what the original gravity of the juice is, balanced by your desired ABV, how much original fruit flavor you want to retain, and how long you will have to age the product if dry or how much backsweetening will have to occur. The more sugar added originally, the higher the ABV, the less fruit flavor, and the boozier your cider/perry will taste before aging or the more you will have to backsweeten if you want it young. With less sugar added, you get a lower ABV, more flavor from your fruit, and a lighter drink that will be ready dryer sooner or will need less backsweetening.

I'm something of a purist (for the US ) and don't like to add sugar when I can avoid it. When raw sugar ferments, the alcohol produced creates a very different tasting, thin, and rather harsh booze when compared to fruit juice fermentation.

If my first readings are in the 1.050 - 1.060 range then I don't add any sugar since it'll be in the 6.5%-8% range. If the OG is below 1.050 then rather than using sugar I'll raise it by adding apple concentrate.

Here's a nice chapitalization calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/chaptalization-calculator/

and an SG to Brix converter: http://www.brewersfriend.com/brix-converter/
Thanks LeBreton! Very helpful!
Ok, i plan ro start Sunday so ill take a reading and try to calculate the right amount of sugar...
I'm like you as far as I don't want just heavy alcohol taste.... Last time (my first time) I added 5 cups brown sugar to 5 gal.... I had a very violent fermentation with the bung blowing out of the bunghole..... So was I a little heavy on the sugar?
I also failed to take a first reading with a hydrometer b/c I didn't have one at the time....

I want a good tasting cider but I little heavier ABV then 6% or 7%. I'd like to be around 8%- 10%.
Will I still have a good flavor? It's pushing my brew to 8 to 10% is not going to be good flavor then I would consider backing down the alcohol a little... But I don't know this stuff yet so???

I'm gonna start 6 gal of apple and another separate batch that is a mix of 2 gal pear and one gal fresh pressed juice from the local orchard.... I have EC1118 for the apple and D47 for the pear/apple combo batch.

So LeBreton (& the rest of u):
If It was you.... And you wanted not too too sweet (but a little) and a decent amount of bite, like 8% to 10% (Unless that is too much and doesn't leave good flavor)
How much sugar would you add to the 6 gallon of apple with EC 1118
And
How much would you add to the pear/apple 3gal? (Again, 2gal of store bought organic Pear Nectar with no preservative and 1 gal of apple from the orchard)
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