pasteurized cider

sashurlow · 01-21-2011, 12:44 PM

So its always been said not to use pasteurized cider. If pasteurizing sterilizes the cider, then why is this a bad thing?
So basically, could someone please explain the details about why pasteurizing is bad.
Also, the cider I just bought uses "potassium sorbate (to maintain freshness)". What the heck does that mean?
thanks,
Scott

CorgiBrew · 01-21-2011, 12:51 PM

Pasteurized cider should work, but you won't get anywhere with cider that's been treated with sorbate. Trust me, I know from sad experience (5 gal down the drain

)

GinKings · 01-21-2011, 01:07 PM

Potassium sorbate in your cider is a problem. It will prevent your cider from fermenting.

Pasteurized vs non-pasteurized is a personal preference. Either will work. I think some people are concerned about possible flavor changes caused by the pasteurization. IMHO, it's not a big deal.

**Edcculus** · 01-21-2011, 01:12 PM

Pasteurization will often permanently cloud juice too. Nothing that a little pectic enzyme when pitching the yeast won't fix. Then...there are some that say pectic enzyme is a bad thing too. Basically, unpasteurized is as pure as it gets. There is just the possibility of wild yeast, lacto and pedio in the cider. Its up the the cider maker to clean it up with sulfites (just like wine makers).

Sorbate is a yeast inhibitor (hence "for freshness"), so you will probably have a harder time getting that juice to ferment.

sashurlow · 01-21-2011, 01:27 PM

Well crap... How do I get rid of the sorbate?
I was assuming that since cambden and potassium sorbate are both potassium based, it would get released to the air and go away. Do I just have to wait a while and it will go away?
Scott

GinKings · 01-21-2011, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sashurlow

Well crap... How do I get rid of the sorbate?
I was assuming that since cambden and potassium sorbate are both potassium based, it would get released to the air and go away. Do I just have to wait a while and it will go away?
Scott

I don't think you can get rid of it.

My local cider mill uses UV light to pasteurize. I wouldn't think that would have much impact on the cider, nor would I expect it to make it cloudy.

**Edcculus** · 01-21-2011, 03:45 PM

Yea, Potassium Sorbate and Potassium metabisulfite are two completely different things. Sorbate is more of a salt while metabisulfite (potassium or sodium) are sulfur based. Metabisulfites will dissipate rather quickly, while Sorbate will not since it doesn't necessarily react with anything. If you make a starter and pitch enough yeast, you may be able to get a ferment. Sorbate inhibits yeast from reproducing. Therefore, any yeast you put in will ferment, they just won't reproduce. 1 vial, smack pack or sachet of yeast will not be enough. I'd look at making at least a 1L starter using extra light Dry Malt Extract and yeast nutrient. I'd go the malt extract route since its higher in essential nutrients for yeast growth and health than juices.

sashurlow · 01-21-2011, 06:09 PM

bummer... I did do a search and came up with a recipe of boiling sugar water and bread yeast for a starter. I'm going with that route. Its only three gallons, so hopefully three healthy cups of yeast will do the trick. It will also be sitting behind the wood stove, so the temp will be very friendly for the yeasties.
This is a batch with some crab apple jelly mixed in (and strained) so it should be an interesting batch.
So the moral is... Pasteurized: OK. Sorbate: BAD.
Scott

**JeepDiver** · 01-21-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sashurlow

bummer... I did do a search and came up with a recipe of boiling sugar water and bread yeast for a starter. I'm going with that route. Its only three gallons, so hopefully three healthy cups of yeast will do the trick. It will also be sitting behind the wood stove, so the temp will be very friendly for the yeasties.
This is a batch with some crab apple jelly mixed in (and strained) so it should be an interesting batch.
So the moral is... Pasteurized: OK. Sorbate: BAD.
Scott

If you are freminting the cider by a stove, the temps are going to be way to high. You will just be making headache juice with all of the fusels.

CorgiBrew · 01-21-2011, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sashurlow

bummer... I did do a search and came up with a recipe of boiling sugar water and bread yeast for a starter. I'm going with that route. Its only three gallons, so hopefully three healthy cups of yeast will do the trick. It will also be sitting behind the wood stove, so the temp will be very friendly for the yeasties.
This is a batch with some crab apple jelly mixed in (and strained) so it should be an interesting batch.
So the moral is... Pasteurized: OK. Sorbate: BAD.
Scott

Never say never, but I tried to save my sorbated batch with a lot of yeast (having also read that sorbate only prevents yeast reproduction) with no luck. Gave it plenty of time and yeast, but no go. Hope you have better luck!