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10-05-2008, 01:39 PM
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#1
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DisMember
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 162
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Just one question before I go for my first cider!
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Hey, all!
I'm about to tackle my first cider, but I'm a little confused. Seems the more I read, the more confused I get! I guess we're back to "making cider is simple - it's up to us to make it complicated".
I'll be getting some unpasturized, fresh-pressed, no-preservative cider from a little orchard down the road. I've already got Wyeast Cider Yeast in my fridge ready to go.
I'm inclined to pasteurize this myself in my beer kettle - hold it at 150F (or whatever temp pasteurizing is... gotta look it up), add 1/2 cup splenda (going for a slightly sweet, Woodchuck-type cider), put it in the primary and pitch the yeast.
But I've read about using campden tablets - they kill the yeast, right? But does campden kill non-yeast nasties that might be in there?
Is my above plan a good one?
Ultimately, I plan to keg this - where it seems like an overwhelming majority of people bottle ciders. Is there a reason for that?
Thanks so much for any input you have for me!!!
__________________
Primary: Imperial IPA, Biermuncher's OctoberFAST, Zombie Dust
Secondary: Caberlot (my first wine!)
Cold Crashing: Goat's Spare Tire
Kegged & On Tap: Bavarian Hefeweizen, 3-year aged Cider
Projects: The Ravens Keezer - Custom Gas System - 10gal MLT
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10-05-2008, 01:53 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 512
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DO NOT HEAT PASTURIZE your cider. 1 Crushed camden tablet per gallon mixed in to the liquid 24 hours before you pitch the yeast will kill all the little beasties in there. Non-yeast nasties included. If you are going to use pectic enzime to help it clear put that in 12 hours after the camden and 12 hours before you pitch the yeast. Do this and you will be find. Heating the liquid hot enough to kill things will set the pectic so it will never clear. It also will change the taste I have heard. Its not needed since you are using camden and camden is a lot easier than heat to 170 and hold for X minutes.
__________________
Primary: 3 gallon cider S-04
Secondary: Valentine Apfelwein Clone 1 Gal
Bottled: Halloween Apfelwein Clone 1 Gal
On Deck: 90 Shilling Clone
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10-05-2008, 03:16 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Spring Valley, Ohio
Posts: 1,370
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He's got it right about heating it and using the pectic enzyme, though it might not be necessary.
I might even hold on the splenda. Yeah in the end you might want a sweet product, but I would suggest fermenting without it. That way when it is done, you can taste it, and if you like it dry its good to go. If you want it sweet, you can sweeten to taste then, getting it exactly how you like it.
For the kegging, a lot of people either don't have kegging equipment (myself) or just don't feel the need or desire to have their cider on tap. But if you want it keg, there is no reason at all to not do it, plenty of people do, its just a personal preference if you have the capability.
Best of luck, and as long as you are sanitary, its hard to mess this stuff up.
__________________
Meads: Leap Year, MAOM, Habanero/Serrano Capsicumel \m/ Oo \m/, Show Mead for Berry Melomel and Cinnamon Vanilla Metheglin
Ciders:3 Ciders with differing additives TBD, Strawberry/Apple Cider
Wine: Trader Joe's Triple Berry Wine for SWMBO, Cherry Port, planning my Black Currant Vanilla Wine, Banana Wine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffalupagus
the idea of homebrew is to make something that tastes better, is better for you, and reflects your personal tastes better than a commercial brew... not to power your lawmower
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10-05-2008, 06:21 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montana
Posts: 4,594
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+ 1 on what tusch & lapaglia said.
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10-05-2008, 07:14 PM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Olympia Washington
Posts: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WheeledGoat
Hey, all!
I'm about to tackle my first cider, but I'm a little confused. Seems the more I read, the more confused I get! I guess we're back to "making cider is simple - it's up to us to make it complicated".
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If cider making were simple more people be doing. Real cider making is akin to wine making. Anyone think that is simple? Doing it right takes patience, record keeping, proper timing, proper temps, proper nutrients, adequate aging.
However cider making can be easy, light hearted and care free but the odds of a great batch and recreating that are a crap shoot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheeledGoat
I'll be getting some unpasturized, fresh-pressed, no-preservative cider from a little orchard down the road. I've already got Wyeast Cider Yeast in my fridge ready to go.
I'm inclined to pasteurize this myself in my beer kettle - hold it at 150F (or whatever temp pasteurizing is... gotta look it up), add 1/2 cup splenda (going for a slightly sweet, Woodchuck-type cider), put it in the primary and pitch the yeast.
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Seriously... Do not do this. Do not cook your cider. Cider was the safest of drinks when not even water wasn't safe to drink. Cider was safe because of the fermentation process which killed all the pathogens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheeledGoat
But I've read about using campden tablets - they kill the yeast, right? But does campden kill non-yeast nasties that might be in there?
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Hell if you boil it you shouldn't need to take this step. But this is the step I'd take instead of boiling. Why use Campden? It kills or stuns the natural yeast and kills bacteria which allows you to pitch your selected yeast 24 hours later and give it a better chance to become the dominate yeast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheeledGoat
Is my above plan a good one?
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Think I covered which parts weren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WheeledGoat
Ultimately, I plan to keg this - where it seems like an overwhelming majority of people bottle ciders. Is there a reason for that?
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No reason other than saving and gifting. Once you tap a keg its gonna or should be gone in a week or so. Cider makers do this once a year using fresh pressed juice which in most cases they pressed themselves. The fortunate ones are able to select specific apple varieties which will define their up coming year's blends. So it is nice to have them around for a while. A counter pressure bottle filler would allow one to bottle from a keg however.
I'll do both bottling and kegging but then again I'll have 200 gallons or so. For most of my batches each variety will be fermented separate and blended after aging, I may even get to oak barrel age a blend or two this year.
__________________
David White
Olympia, WA
Oldtimecider.com
Future Brews
About the press my 2009 cider varieties.
Primary
30 gallons of farmhouse apples from Fruitland Washington.
Kegged
08' Kingston Black Cider 08' Yarlington Mill Cider 08' Gravenstein Cider 08' Graveyard Blend Cider
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10-05-2008, 07:25 PM
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#6
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Drink your beer!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 41,509
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One other point I didn't see mentioned- if you're kegging, why not sweeten with regular sugar or honey? After fermentation, you can stabilize the cider with campden and sorbate and then sweeten to taste before kegging. Natural sweeteners taste a lot better than splenda.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
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10-05-2008, 07:32 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Spring Valley, Ohio
Posts: 1,370
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Good point yooper, I completely glossed over that one haha
__________________
Meads: Leap Year, MAOM, Habanero/Serrano Capsicumel \m/ Oo \m/, Show Mead for Berry Melomel and Cinnamon Vanilla Metheglin
Ciders:3 Ciders with differing additives TBD, Strawberry/Apple Cider
Wine: Trader Joe's Triple Berry Wine for SWMBO, Cherry Port, planning my Black Currant Vanilla Wine, Banana Wine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffalupagus
the idea of homebrew is to make something that tastes better, is better for you, and reflects your personal tastes better than a commercial brew... not to power your lawmower
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10-05-2008, 08:03 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Finger Lakes
Posts: 712
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can you add the pectin enzyme with the campden tabs?
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10-05-2008, 08:05 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Spring Valley, Ohio
Posts: 1,370
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Add the campden, then 12 hours later add the pectic enzyme, then 12 hours after that pitch your yeast.
__________________
Meads: Leap Year, MAOM, Habanero/Serrano Capsicumel \m/ Oo \m/, Show Mead for Berry Melomel and Cinnamon Vanilla Metheglin
Ciders:3 Ciders with differing additives TBD, Strawberry/Apple Cider
Wine: Trader Joe's Triple Berry Wine for SWMBO, Cherry Port, planning my Black Currant Vanilla Wine, Banana Wine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuffalupagus
the idea of homebrew is to make something that tastes better, is better for you, and reflects your personal tastes better than a commercial brew... not to power your lawmower
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10-05-2008, 09:02 PM
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#10
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DisMember
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 162
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Sweet!! Thanks for all the help!
Excellent point about using regular sweetners if I'm kegging - but I'm mostly making this for the wife, and she (and I) actually prefer diet drinks. We don't like regular colas and the stickiness they leave in your mouth... so I might just stick with Splenda anyway!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tusch
Add the campden, then 12 hours later add the pectic enzyme, then 12 hours after that pitch your yeast.
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There seems to be 2 camps on this - some say to do it all together, others say to separate the pectic enzymes and do it 12hrs in. Does anybody know why or have a theory as to how this would make any difference??
Lastly, what about aging?? Oldtimeydave mentioned that "proper aging" was important, but didn't elaborate. I was kinda under the impression that one fermentation was complete and the ETOH was present, cider was ready (since there's no caramel, hops, or other funky stuff to tone down). Am I wrong?
__________________
Primary: Imperial IPA, Biermuncher's OctoberFAST, Zombie Dust
Secondary: Caberlot (my first wine!)
Cold Crashing: Goat's Spare Tire
Kegged & On Tap: Bavarian Hefeweizen, 3-year aged Cider
Projects: The Ravens Keezer - Custom Gas System - 10gal MLT
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