divi2323

Recipes 

My post was about over pitching, not under pitching. Under pitching is known to have ill effects (colony doesn't take off fast enough and infection sets in etc)

jkoegel

Recipes 

Brewers probably use a starter to either continue brewing from the same strain of yeast for consistency from batch to batch and probably for the fact that the brews they are doing are much much larger than 5 gallons. If you had a huge vat of beer to ferment you would not want to take any chances getting that yeast started in a hurry.

GinKings

Recipes 

Most brewers make starters because they feel there are not enough yeast cells in one vial/pack of yeast for a 5 gallon batch (especially in higher gravity worts) and that is preferable to pitching multiple vials/packs.

There are calculators such as http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html that give you optimal starter size or number of vials to pitch.

LeBreton

Recipes 

You are absolutely correct that yeast is self regulating. In fact, that is my entire point. The yeast in cider is always trying to reach population equilibrium. Start too far away from that equilibrium on either end and you may experience some negatives.

When you underpitch yeast they rapidly reproduce to reach the ideal population. This will result in a longer growth phase than normal. The problem is that apple juice is a high acid and low nutrient home for yeast and is not the ideal home for yeast reproduction. Too much reproduction in this somewhat hostile environment will cause yeast mutations. This is why starters are used and underpitching is not advised.

Too much yeast causes competition and some cells die off as the population stabilizes. The problem can also be though of through the lens of a lack of nutrients in relation to the yeast (something all cidermakers are familiar with.) We all know this can result in problems such as H2S (rotten eggs) and off flavors.

Neither is the end of the world but both over and under pitching should be minimized. Just like extreme temps should be avoided, but some temperature fluctuation is fine there is a pretty big window for healthy yeast colony size.

I don't know either, and didn't say (or see anyone mention) this in the thread.

__________________
Bellwether Hard Cider
In all the states no door stands wider,
To ask you in to drink hard cider

cgenebrewer

Recipes 

To the OP:
If you take quality juice, and add dextrose, and add a decent yeast, and allow it to ferment using good techniques, if you have a product that doesnt taste good you just need more time.
If you think your juice is the factor, then experiement with using acid blend and tannin .

fbangie

Recipes 

Check this thread out. Cut all your ingredients in half. Just bottled a 2.5 gal batch last Sunday. Very tasty.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/caramel-apple-hard-cider-292770/