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Old 03-29-2012, 09:18 AM   #21
divi2323
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Originally Posted by GinKings

Just to play devil's advocate: If the amount of yeast pitched doesn't matter, then why do brewers make such a big deal about making a starter?

Just because you can ferment a five gallon batch with a few grains of yeast, it doesn't mean you should.
My post was about over pitching, not under pitching. Under pitching is known to have ill effects (colony doesn't take off fast enough and infection sets in etc)
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:56 PM   #22
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Brewers probably use a starter to either continue brewing from the same strain of yeast for consistency from batch to batch and probably for the fact that the brews they are doing are much much larger than 5 gallons. If you had a huge vat of beer to ferment you would not want to take any chances getting that yeast started in a hurry.

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Old 03-29-2012, 03:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkoegel View Post
Brewers probably use a starter to either continue brewing from the same strain of yeast for consistency from batch to batch and probably for the fact that the brews they are doing are much much larger than 5 gallons. If you had a huge vat of beer to ferment you would not want to take any chances getting that yeast started in a hurry.
Most brewers make starters because they feel there are not enough yeast cells in one vial/pack of yeast for a 5 gallon batch (especially in higher gravity worts) and that is preferable to pitching multiple vials/packs.

There are calculators such as http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html that give you optimal starter size or number of vials to pitch.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:36 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by divi2323 View Post
This isn't true. Yeast will multiply up to a colony size where the food is able to sustain them. Overpitching is only detrimental when your yeast supply is limited in the packaging.
You are absolutely correct that yeast is self regulating. In fact, that is my entire point. The yeast in cider is always trying to reach population equilibrium. Start too far away from that equilibrium on either end and you may experience some negatives.

When you underpitch yeast they rapidly reproduce to reach the ideal population. This will result in a longer growth phase than normal. The problem is that apple juice is a high acid and low nutrient home for yeast and is not the ideal home for yeast reproduction. Too much reproduction in this somewhat hostile environment will cause yeast mutations. This is why starters are used and underpitching is not advised.

Too much yeast causes competition and some cells die off as the population stabilizes. The problem can also be though of through the lens of a lack of nutrients in relation to the yeast (something all cidermakers are familiar with.) We all know this can result in problems such as H2S (rotten eggs) and off flavors.

Neither is the end of the world but both over and under pitching should be minimized. Just like extreme temps should be avoided, but some temperature fluctuation is fine there is a pretty big window for healthy yeast colony size.

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Originally Posted by divi2323 View Post
I don't know where people get the ideas where double the yeast will speed up a process or will cause a yeasty taste in the final product. It's just simply not true.
I don't know either, and didn't say (or see anyone mention) this in the thread.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:19 PM   #25
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To the OP:
If you take quality juice, and add dextrose, and add a decent yeast, and allow it to ferment using good techniques, if you have a product that doesnt taste good you just need more time.
If you think your juice is the factor, then experiement with using acid blend and tannin .

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Old 04-04-2012, 08:22 PM   #26
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Check this thread out. Cut all your ingredients in half. Just bottled a 2.5 gal batch last Sunday. Very tasty.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/cara...-cider-292770/

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