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wwitb10 · 09-20-2011, 09:27 PM

So about a month ago I was made aware of a life threatening allergy i have to all grains, rice, potato, and corn. Needless to say beer is out which sucks because I was an avid beer drinker and loved exploring the pairings and different flavors. This led me into trying some readily available commercial ciders from the store. They were ok. Looking for more i went into bevmo and searched out the higher end ciders...they were great!...but pricey. Being a DIY kinda guy I thought "I wonder if i could make this stuff". That lead me to this site where i have gotten a lot of great information and opened my eyes to the complexity and variety in cider production. I'm vary excited to get started. To get my feet wet I'm starting off with a 2 gallon batch. Right now I'm planning on using an ale yeast in each gallon. Using a SG of +/-1.060 (if not already there i'll add some sugar to get it up there) (should you dissolve the sugar in boiling water first?) Then I'll let one gallon go until fully fermented...down to 1.000 or .996 etc. I'll then move to another jug and let rest for 4 weeks...backsweeten enough to get bottle and get carbonation...looks like around 1.010 will do the trick and not create any bombs. I plan on letting them age having one maybe once a month to see how the dry cider develops. With the other bottle I will be going semi-dry and pulling at about 1.015 and then backsweetening to about 1.018...bottle and let it carb. up. Once good i'll put them in the fridge to stop the yeast. Plan on letting them sit in the fridge for about 2 weeks and then cracking one open. Does anyone know if the cider will improve with more time in the fridge? Well here is what i'm starting with minus the pectic enzyme pack. I'll keep you posted as I go through this journey

Jacob_Marley · 09-20-2011, 09:44 PM

Star-San ... woo-hoo!

One of the best money-saving purchases you can make.

Jacob_Marley · 09-20-2011, 10:39 PM

More for your kit ... you’ll need a "racking cane" and tubing.

You might also consider obtaining a fleet of 16oz to 20 oz plastic pop bottles with screw off caps ( purchased as empty returnables from your favorite party store). This is one solution in lieu of buying a bottle capper, crown caps (aka beer bottle caps), and empty non-twist-off beer bottles -again purchased as returnables. Not much for presentation, but if you will be doing most of the consumption ... good for re-use, safety and convenience.
I’ve had good results with the capper/crown cap/bottle route using Guinness 11.2 oz bottles (from their drought product) and Guinness 23oz bottles (from their extra stout).

Your plans sound good.

I assume you are going to divide up your packet of yeast between jugs ... most yeast packs are good for 5 or 6 gallons.
Particularly heavy initial yeast can create a heavier amount of lees which could contribute to autolysis (the yeast consuming itself) which can lead to off flavors/odors when unintended and unmanaged. It also can lead to changes to yeast maturation and the amount of time it takes to ferment which affects the development of the esters responsible for flavors and aroma (I think this is a bigger issue in brewing though).
While some studies have shown low nutrient musts having good rapid fermentation from unusually high pitch rates ... really, adding large amounts of yeast would just increase the cost of the batch.

A couple other items you might find useful ...
A good solid "bus tub" ... the sort of tupperware tub used to clear tables at restaurants. This has a whole host of uses

A 3 liter wine bottle. When you rack a gallon jug, you end up with just slightly less volume of liquid which means you have to either add something to bring the level back up to within an inch or two of the top of the jug (water, marbles, whatever) OR you can rack to a smaller 3 liter jug.
Of course, the result will be all the cider may not fit into the 3-liter ... that amount is the "gratuity" - a consumable amount leftover for enjoyment. A slippery slope though ... the habit of leaving a "gratuity".

**dinnerstick** · 09-20-2011, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwitb10

looks like around 1.010 will do the trick and not create any bombs.

sounds to me like bottle bomb territory...

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwitb10

With the other bottle I will be going semi-dry and pulling at about 1.015 and then backsweetening to about 1.018...bottle and let it carb. up. Once good i'll put them in the fridge to stop the yeast.

what about chilling it for a few days to cold crash, then once relatively clear sweetening to where you want it, carbing up, and storing in the fridge? if you take strongly fermenting (and very cloudy, yeasty) 1.015 cider, add more sugar, bottle, and wait 2 weeks, you are likely going to turn your bottles into sand. i wouldn't risk that personally. start to check them after a few days, or bottle a few in plastic soda bottles so you can gauge the carb level by feel. if you cold crash they will carb up much more slowly since there will be far less yeast

wwitb10 · 09-21-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob_Marley

More for your kit ... you’ll need a "racking cane" and tubing.

You might also consider obtaining a fleet of 16oz to 20 oz plastic pop bottles with screw off caps ( purchased as empty returnables from your favorite party store). This is one solution in lieu of buying a bottle capper, crown caps (aka beer bottle caps), and empty non-twist-off beer bottles -again purchased as returnables. Not much for presentation, but if you will be doing most of the consumption ... good for re-use, safety and convenience.
I’ve had good results with the capper/crown cap/bottle route using Guinness 11.2 oz bottles (from their drought product) and Guinness 23oz bottles (from their extra stout).

Your plans sound good.

I assume you are going to divide up your packet of yeast between jugs ... most yeast packs are good for 5 or 6 gallons.
Particularly heavy initial yeast can create a heavier amount of lees which could contribute to autolysis (the yeast consuming itself) which can lead to off flavors/odors when unintended and unmanaged. It also can lead to changes to yeast maturation and the amount of time it takes to ferment which affects the development of the esters responsible for flavors and aroma (I think this is a bigger issue in brewing though).
While some studies have shown low nutrient musts having good rapid fermentation from unusually high pitch rates ... really, adding large amounts of yeast would just increase the cost of the batch.

A couple other items you might find useful ...
A good solid "bus tub" ... the sort of tupperware tub used to clear tables at restaurants. This has a whole host of uses

A 3 liter wine bottle. When you rack a gallon jug, you end up with just slightly less volume of liquid which means you have to either add something to bring the level back up to within an inch or two of the top of the jug (water, marbles, whatever) OR you can rack to a smaller 3 liter jug.
Of course, the result will be all the cider may not fit into the 3-liter ... that amount is the "gratuity" - a consumable amount leftover for enjoyment. A slippery slope though ... the habit of leaving a "gratuity".

Jacob - never thought about using plastic bottles. If i need more i may go that route. Right now i have about 30 beer bottles that i plan on reusing. Not the twist off type more like the Guinness type where i could pick up some crown caps and a capper for reuse.

I do plan on dividing up the yeast pack. You're right I got the S-04 ale yeast and it's good for 5 gallons. My plans was to use about 25% in each gallon leaving me with about half the pack left...maybe a little less now. Also plan on using some pectic enzymes when pitching. Good information about the yeast thank you!

Also thank you on the info about additional supplies...got some more shopping to do. Marbles I think are a great idea to make up the volume after racking.

LOL - Gratuity sounds like sampling as you're cooking up a great dinner...chefs privileges I say

wwitb10 · 09-21-2011, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinnerstick

what about chilling it for a few days to cold crash, then once relatively clear sweetening to where you want it, carbing up, and storing in the fridge? if you take strongly fermenting (and very cloudy, yeasty) 1.015 cider, add more sugar, bottle, and wait 2 weeks, you are likely going to turn your bottles into sand. i wouldn't risk that personally. start to check them after a few days, or bottle a few in plastic soda bottles so you can gauge the carb level by feel. if you cold crash they will carb up much more slowly since there will be far less yeast

Dinnerstick - thanks for the great suggestions. I think i'll add the cold crash and the plastic bottle tester as you suggested. For the dry batch would a backsweetening to 1.003 be good before bottling and get a good carb without a bomb and without having to cold crash the bottles?

wwitb10 · 09-21-2011, 04:27 PM

Got the Pectic enzymes in, the S-04 ale yeast, SG up to 1.055 (started at 1.050...added a 1/4 cup of raw sugar cane to each gallon to get a bit more alcohol content). That was last night. This morning one bottle had no apparent change and the other had a ring of foam starting to form around the top of the juice. No bubbles so far but has not yet been even a day. Right now they sit in a dark cabinet at about 74 degrees.

Jacob_Marley · 09-21-2011, 05:26 PM

Using jugs as your primary fermenter can be a bit oxygen deprived ...

You might consider giving the jugs a good shake to get some oxygen into the must. Yeast need oxygen. You would take off the airlocks and give each jug 3 or 4 good hard 30 second shakes, removing the cap momentarily between each shake. (then put the airlocks back on of course)

wwitb10 · 09-21-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob_Marley

Using jugs as your primary fermenter can be a bit oxygen deprived ...

You might consider giving the jugs a good shake to get some oxygen into the must. Yeast need oxygen. You would take off the airlocks and give each jug 3 or 4 good hard 30 second shakes, removing the cap momentarily between each shake. (then put the airlocks back on of course)

If i get home tonight and nothing's happening I'll shake em up...thanks!

wwitb10 · 09-22-2011, 02:19 AM

Got home...both are all bubbly in the air lock...now the waiting game.