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Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > further guidance appreciated
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:29 AM   #1
oldf150
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OK, so I just bottled most of my cider experiment. Started as Tree Top and Lalvin D47, 2 gallons. After 10 days into the bottles it went, no back sweetening. The cider was somewhat bubbly as it transfered, slight haze. Specific gravity at abt 71*F was a flat 1.000. I put a bit over ice, and tasted it. Tasted kinda like watered down sourish apple wine cooler, alcohol taste obvious. My non-professional description would be a light,dry-sour-apple. Is this about what would be expected?

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Old 02-13-2013, 03:27 AM   #2
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I was pleasantly suprised with my most recent first attempt with d47 and Treetop. I use the Treetop often but my 1st with d47 tasted nice and crisp. Actually kinda like Angry Orchard Crisp. My ferment took about 2 weeks in my cool basement. What temp were you at? And what SG did you start at?

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Old 02-13-2013, 03:48 AM   #3
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What are you looking to make and what flavor are you looking to bring fourth.....what was your exact recipe and steps...with this info I can further guide. You in the direction. You Wana go

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Old 02-13-2013, 03:53 AM   #4
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I was pleasantly suprised with my most recent first attempt with d47 and Treetop. I use the Treetop often but my 1st with d47 tasted nice and crisp. Actually kinda like Angry Orchard Crisp. My ferment took about 2 weeks in my cool basement. What temp were you at? And what SG did you start at?
Sat in the dark, tenp from 67 to 71*F. OG was 1.051, FG 1.000. Seems still a bit fizzy. I will crack open a bottle in aweek to see if its over carbing.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:57 AM   #5
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With d-47 you can get off flavors over 70f.....I dnt let it get above 65°f....any nutrient or sugar additions

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Old 02-13-2013, 04:33 AM   #6
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Sat in the dark, tenp from 67 to 71*F. OG was 1.051, FG 1.000. Seems still a bit fizzy. I will crack open a bottle in aweek to see if its over carbing.
Interesting. Our recipes are so similar. The only difference I can see is my temp was just a lil lower (low 60s) and I added some concentrate to start at 1.06. I definitely did notice that fizz you were talking about. I think some short term cool aging wont hurt anything...only help. I kept hearing about people liking D47 for cider and really have to agree. Oh and one more thing, the Treetop 3 apple blend was what I used because it was on sale and noticed it was actually not from concentrate. I have always had really good results from the NFC juice when I do use it. Not sure if it's just chance or truth.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:40 AM   #7
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With d-47 you can get off flavors over 70f.....I dnt let it get above 65°f....any nutrient or sugar additions
Nothing added. Juice and yeast. Ideally I would like to have a fizzy cider, with an apple taste, but not quite as sweet as Woodchuck. I have a tube of White Labs English Cider yeast, thinking about another 2 gal experiment with that, and some frozen apple concentrate back sweetening. Suggestions?
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:09 AM   #8
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Nothing added. Juice and yeast. Ideally I would like to have a fizzy cider, with an apple taste, but not quite as sweet as Woodchuck. I have a tube of White Labs English Cider yeast, thinking about another 2 gal experiment with that, and some frozen apple concentrate back sweetening. Suggestions?
Depending on abv your are looking for and a time line ( 2wk-6months) on when you want to drink this here are a few suggestions ...1 get some yeast nutrient ...2 stay away from table sugar...3 keep lower ferment temps.....

I like mine around 5-7abv and I stop ferment early as I feel you get a good apple (fruit) flavor if you dnt ferment out...that being said I still like to age around a month before drinking...sg 1.06 to 1.065..

Fg 1.015-1.02... for me.. you mite like it 1.008.....
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:36 AM   #9
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+1 to what jackfrost said. Racking between 1.01 and 1.02 is key to slowing down/stopping the ferment and saving the appley taste. I normally use high flocculating ale yeast. The D47 was just an experiment.
Oldf150 you have the right approach by not dumping in loads of sugar. When you add too much sugar, it tends to cause some extra time to mellow. I do like to use juice concentrate to get it around 1.06. A lil brown sugar on the occasion.
Many would disagree, but I look at backsweetening as a way to correct something that I let go too long. It takes practice, but carefully racking to secondary and then bottling is what I do. I add my concentrate at the beginning and get the yeast to fade away so to speak. If you can cold-crash, even better. Just thought I'd share my natural approach. Cheers.

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Old 02-13-2013, 05:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by oldf150 View Post
OK, so I just bottled most of my cider experiment. Started as Tree Top and Lalvin D47, 2 gallons. After 10 days into the bottles it went, no back sweetening. The cider was somewhat bubbly as it transfered, slight haze. Specific gravity at abt 71*F was a flat 1.000. I put a bit over ice, and tasted it. Tasted kinda like watered down sourish apple wine cooler, alcohol taste obvious. My non-professional description would be a light,dry-sour-apple. Is this about what would be expected?
Yep, that taste sounds about right.
The one thing it is likely missing is the contribution of tannin for slight bitterness and astringency, an important part of flavor.
Good cider apples include the varieties Bittersweet (high tannins and low acid), and Bittersharp (high tannins and high acid).
Commercial apple juice tends to have little tannin, so if you want it you need to add it.

I might not necessarily use grape tannin though (unless that's all you've got) which is the most common tannin powder seen at the Brewers/Vintners supply. I'd try to either get Oak Tannin powder or a blend. Alternately you can oak your cider with real wood. But either way, grape tannin would be ok as any tannin would improve the flavor verses no tannin.

If you are interested, more on adding tannin to cider here ...
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/wine...3/#post4382358
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