Freezing cider then fermenting

I saw a video years ago and cannot track it down anymore it was of a hard cider maker that would freeze the cider then drain it to concentrate it and then ferment it. is this a common practice? id like to do this to up the sugars in a 5 gallon batch without adding non cider sugars. how much is left frozen in the jug?

Look up making ice cider. Its not how much you get its how high is the gravity you want determine how much you get. Its also on our list, not sure what they do about the acid levels unless this is automatically MLF or just so sweet it doesnt matter? WVMJ

When we freeze our cider we have to let it thaw completely or it taste funny. I think all of the floral undertones that come from the skins are lost(filtered) by the ice. That's is the yummy sediment on the bottom of the cider jug that you shake up.

thanks guys

What is your point of freezing it? This post is about concentrating the juice, letting it thaw all the way would not do that. Ice cider is about concentrating the juice, you get a higher alcohol level and a higher residual sweetness. WVMJ

mopar318 said:

When we freeze our cider we have to let it thaw completely or it taste funny. I think all of the floral undertones that come from the skins are lost(filtered) by the ice. That's is the yummy sediment on the bottom of the cider jug that you shake up.

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Ah. I though he was trying to freeze it to use later on in time.

We have a few hundred frozen gallons right now.

WVMJ said:

What is your point of freezing it? This post is about concentrating the juice, letting it thaw all the way would not do that. Ice cider is about concentrating the juice, you get a higher alcohol level and a higher residual sweetness. WVMJ

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The reason for freezing i saw a online show where a hard cider company filled plastic jugs with unfermented cider when it froze they turned the jugs upside down and collected the concentrated cider then fermented it to get a higher abv. i wanted to do this so i didn't have to add any other types of sugar to get a higher abv. my thoughts are this would make for a better tasting hard cider

Gar said:

The reason for freezing i saw a online show where a hard cider company filled plastic jugs with unfermented cider when it froze they turned the jugs upside down and collected the concentrated cider then fermented it to get a higher abv. i wanted to do this so i didn't have to add any other types of sugar to get a higher abv. my thoughts are this would make for a better tasting hard cider

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Just freeze is and thaw until slushy. Shake it up and pour out the liquid. What is left is mostly clear water.

Or, make an experimental batch from non-reconstituted AJC? That would give you an idea as to if the flavor is more intense.

If you are looking to make high ABV cider, then make a batch with white or brown sugar, get your OG to 1.080 or higher, then use wine yeast to bring it down to 1.000 or lower. Then you can take that, and put it in the freezer, then drain off the concentrate. Expect to lose around 1/2 of the volume. You can do this multiple times if you want, this is called freeze distillation. And you are making Apple Jack. You can easily get it around 20% ABV or higher doing this.

I saw on brewtv on youtube during their cider episode that they froze a plastic jug and then drained off some of the liquid, but that was only to obtain apple juice extract for the purposes of flavouring/backsweetening their kegged dry cider.

jflongo said:

If you are looking to make high ABV cider, then make a batch with white or brown sugar, get your OG to 1.080 or higher, then use wine yeast to bring it down to 1.000 or lower. Then you can take that, and put it in the freezer, then drain off the concentrate. Expect to lose around 1/2 of the volume. You can do this multiple times if you want, this is called freeze distillation. And you are making Apple Jack. You can easily get it around 20% ABV or higher doing this.

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I know of this method i would rather not add white or brown sugar i want to concentrate the apple sugars and flavors and then ferment.

phug said:

I saw on brewtv on youtube during their cider episode that they froze a plastic jug and then drained off some of the liquid, but that was only to obtain apple juice extract for the purposes of flavouring/backsweetening their kegged dry cider.

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Ill give that a look thanks

mopar318 said:

Just freeze is and thaw until slushy. Shake it up and pour out the liquid. What is left is mostly clear water.

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Exactly but yes if done incorrectly a funny funny taste can occur. Why not just get concentrate and add to ur juice to eliminate risk.

Gar, are you using good cider from cider apples or just store bought sweet cider or some good fresh cider for a real orchard? If its just storebought I would just add some concentrated apple juice to the cider, if its good stuff then put it in some plastic jugs, freeze, as it thaws drain it off, measure with hydrometer until its where you want it, cant get much easier? WVMJ

Gar said:

I saw a video years ago and cannot track it down anymore it was of a hard cider maker that would freeze the cider then drain it to concentrate it and then ferment it. is this a common practice? id like to do this to up the sugars in a 5 gallon batch without adding non cider sugars. how much is left frozen in the jug?

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WVMJ said:

Gar, are you using good cider from cider apples or just store bought sweet cider or some good fresh cider for a real orchard? If its just storebought I would just add some concentrated apple juice to the cider, if its good stuff then put it in some plastic jugs, freeze, as it thaws drain it off, measure with hydrometer until its where you want it, cant get much easier? WVMJ

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its from a orchard

I made concentrate today with frozen cider. I let bit get slushy and poured out unless about a pint was left in the jug. Gravity was 1.062. I added this to sweet by cider that started at 1.055 with no freeze concentrating.

In case anybody's interested: I just tried to make ice cider from raw cider. From freezing 10 gallons of fresh pressed, I'm going to end up bottling about 1.5 gallons. I have more details if anybody's interested. But the end product is about 11% and very sweet. It fell short of ice wine standards but it was close, and will make great a great after dinner drink

Schott703 said:

In case anybody's interested: I just tried to make ice cider from raw cider. From freezing 10 gallons of fresh pressed, I'm going to end up bottling about 1.5 gallons. I have more details if anybody's interested. But the end product is about 11% and very sweet. It fell short of ice wine standards but it was close, and will make great a great after dinner drink

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im interested i cannot say id ever do anything that extreme but im interested

What was your starting gravity for the cider and what did you end up with after freezing it? What was the volume when you started fermenting it? WVMJ

Schott703 said:

In case anybody's interested: I just tried to make ice cider from raw cider. From freezing 10 gallons of fresh pressed, I'm going to end up bottling about 1.5 gallons. I have more details if anybody's interested. But the end product is about 11% and very sweet. It fell short of ice wine standards but it was close, and will make great a great after dinner drink

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I started with 10 gallons of fresh pressed cider. I froze in a deep freeze solid. Removed, turned up side down over a five gallon pail until I had a product that was 1.098. Turned out a perfect 3 gallons. I fermented at a temp of around 50deg for 8 weeks. I racked it, cold crashed and added sorbate and k-met. I now have about 2 gallons at 1.018 Not positive if fermentation has stopped for good yet, I was told it would between stressing the yeast, high alcohol, and sorbate. We shall see

Schott703 said:

In case anybody's interested: I just tried to make ice cider from raw cider. From freezing 10 gallons of fresh pressed, I'm going to end up bottling about 1.5 gallons. I have more details if anybody's interested. But the end product is about 11% and very sweet. It fell short of ice wine standards but it was close, and will make great a great after dinner drink

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I have seen this ratio of freezing to end product before. About 5 to 1 was also the ratio that folks had been telling me they got. It seems like a lot of product to use to get 1 gallon of a concentrate, but again, home brewing is all about the fun of it!

I will say this - taste and body is incredible, and it's it even 3 months old. The problem I really see is stopping the fermentation

Schott703 said:

I will say this - taste and body is incredible, and it's it even 3 months old. The problem I really see is stopping the fermentation

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Why stop. Instead of fermenting to dryness and back sweetening with maybe some non fermentables??

I was trying to make ice cider by adhering to recognized ice cider standards. They do not allow back sweetening. The idea is to use a yeast that "suffocates" at 11% or so. Then you end up with ice wine gravity and a very sweet product . Great article from wine maker magazine. It's a difficult task to naturally start out with a product of that high of gravity to start with (and no additives)

oregonbrew541 said:

Why stop. Instead of fermenting to dryness and back sweetening with maybe some non fermentables??

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That sounds very interesting thanks I'll look into it!

Any thoughts on how to ensure the yeast are killed? My first thought was to heat pasteurize after the juice ferments to desired level of alcohol/sweetness. Then I was going to bulk age for 3 more months and then bottle and age 3 more months. But now I am worried this will affect the flavor.

I am hesitant to just cold crash at 28 degrees like the big cider companies do, seems like that with this much sugar the yeast will revive themselves. I am also nervous to use campden tablets and potassium sorbate as my basement can approach 70 in the summer and just seems like another potential yeast disaster.

So is heating a viable option or use the chemicals and take my chances?

What kinda yeast you using?

I also recommend heating. I've done side by side taste test Camden vs stove top past. And heat pasturized still tasted better. I actually refuse to use that **** i think home brewers can always use other methods but thats my opinion.
Good luck

I just don't like the sediments left by Pasteurizing the cider. I was actually asking all of the national brewers today at the cider summit in chicago their method, and crispin Pasteurizes their honey crisp which is a great sweet cider.

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jflongo said:

If you are looking to make high ABV cider, then make a batch with white or brown sugar, get your OG to 1.080 or higher, then use wine yeast to bring it down to 1.000 or lower. Then you can take that, and put it in the freezer, then drain off the concentrate. Expect to lose around 1/2 of the volume. You can do this multiple times if you want, this is called freeze distillation. And you are making Apple Jack. You can easily get it around 20% ABV or higher doing this.

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I think the idea of freezing the must (not the hard cider) is that if you allow the juice to begin to thaw and collect the liquid as it thaws then you are collecting a far higher concentration of the sugars (because much of what remains frozen is the water). In other words, while it is true that you are increasing the sugar content of the must you are also, gallon for gallon, increasing the apple flavor. If you simply added sucrose to the must to increase the sugar content, sure you can increase the ABV but you have done nothing to intensify the apple flavors. I have experimented with a tiny sample of apple juice and I was able to increase the gravity by almost 50 percent by freezing and drawing off the first liquid to thaw. But you "lose" a great deal of the volume of the juice.

This of course has nothing to do with distillation. You are freezing the must not the hard cider.

THanks Bernard for explaining that freezing cider concentrates the flavor, who would have guessed that?

We have to try this next season. Along with concentrating the sugar and flavors the acids join in. Did you happen to test for the TA before and after concentrating? With typical sweet cider with lower acid levels I dont think concentrating the acids is much of a problem, but our cider from our own wildling trees right now is pretty tart. I wonder if we will have to end up with a very tart ice cider? Stocking up on better bottles to use for freezing now! WVMJ

I will heat pasteurize. I guess I feel safest going this route. I am still concentrating the juice, its frozen in the back yard, but I need to get a block of time to let it melt appropriately. I am planning on using ec-1118 as yeast, would you recommend something else as I have time to get to the local brew store. I saw references to using a riesling yeast, but I did not come across any actually labeled as such. Hopefully, by Wednesday I will have room temperature concentrate to which I can add the yeast. Then the battle to keep slow steady fermentation begins.

Thanks for your input

Why not just add apple juice concentrate?


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