First Batch in Progress- Am I Ruining It? - Page 2

**CidahMastah** · 01-11-2011, 06:10 PM

No sweat man - I am not busting on you. there is very little good info on cider making out there. Luckily I had some good resources, including a 70 year old man to teach me

I would let your cider sit and ferment for another couple weeks - it will slough off lees for up to a year but most of the lees are off at 3-4 months.

I suggest that you:
1. rack and add sulphite in 30ppm for your next racking (maybe wait 2-3 weeks at least if you have a lot of lees in there) - the sulphiting will help to pull O2 out of solution.
2. wait at least to month 3 from your start of ferment to bottle. When you bottle, smell the cider - if it smells like eggs (sulfury) do not add sulphites at 30PPM, instead mix 1 cabden tablet in 1 gallon of water. Before you bottle, sanitize your bottles and then dunk them in the weak kmeta mix. drain, then bottle. This will give you a super weak installment of kmeta.

disclaimer - if you have fermentation activity at month 3, you likely have a malolactic fermentation taking place. All bets are off and you have to wait for it to resolve before you move on. This could take months. That is ok though, cider isn't really great until it has about a year on it

**CidahMastah** · 01-11-2011, 06:18 PM

Between - if you want to know a few good books to check out, let me know and I can give you a few. When I started working with cider, at one point I remember going into a home brew place, I asked them some questions about cider, they acted confident but gave bad advice. Between some reading and my old timer cider maker friend, I learned a lot. I am not a cidah mastah (yet

), but I thought it was a funny name. Now the old man Stanley, he is a cidah mastah.

Cider is a live animal too. So there is certainly more than one way to handle it. I have had pretty good success, so it isn't rocket science. Producing routinely phenomonal cider on the other hand, is not for the very fickle cider maker.

phillybrew · 01-11-2011, 06:22 PM

Ok, so as I understand it, my new plan should be:
1. Take a measurement tonight
2. Leave it as is for 2 to 3 weeks
3. Rack it to another carboy and add more metabisulphite (what is 30ppm? I was initially told 1/4 teaspoon per 5 gallons)
4. Let it sit in there for a couple more months (when I rack it to the third container, do I add more cider to the top?)
5. Tranfer to my bottling bucket to bottle (I'm assuming, as this is what you do with beer). Do I prime for carbonation at this point, same as beer?
6. I have never used cabden tablets or tannin(?) so not sure about all that...

Does this sound right? Thanks so much for your help!

**CidahMastah** · 01-11-2011, 06:45 PM

PPM = Parts per million. 1 cambden tablet has about 30PPM (Free SO2) per gallon. The tablets are just premeasured tablets of kmeta. Does your powder kmeta list a free so2 strenth (1/8 tsp = 200PPM free S02 per 1 gallon)? I can't remember it off hand.

In short - kmeta binds to O2 in solution at a rate of about 50 percent (all of this is PH dependant - a whole 'nother animal). Usually the package reports free sulphite per gallon. As long as your PH on your cider is <3.8 So2 will be effective in the right dose. Personally, I wouldn't worry about any of that right now.

In my opinion I would do as you laid out above. If you want to carbonate it, you may have to do things differently. You may have to reintroduce yeast if you wait until 4months transpire - the yeast may be very weak, and with each racking you take more yeast out of the picture. The tough part with cider is, if you get a malolactic fermentation (say you bottle in 6 weeks from start of fermentation), you might have bottle bombs. I have a kegging system so I force carbonate.

Always top off with each racking - with water if you don't have cider. I would try to keep racking to no more than 4-5 racks. I personally shoot for 2-3 rackings tops, unless it really needs it, or I over sulphited - happened once. Every rack be gentle and attempt not to introduce air back in.

You can add tanin, but add it now, or with your next top off. It will taste like an addative if you don't let it bulk age in.

**CidahMastah** · 01-11-2011, 06:52 PM

Maybe someone can chime in and give a quick slurry recipe for yeast reintroduction? I can't seem to find my old one...

Basically, you make a weak yeast+ water solution and add it to your bottling bucket, gently stir it in with the priming sugar addition and wait 30 minutes, restir and bottle immediately and cap. You can also substitute cider, but you have to be careful of the sugar values (bottle bombs).

You probably will still have yeast capable of carbonating at 3-4 months, but that is pushing it. You can always bottle and take a chance, if you fall short, you will have still cider.

phillybrew · 01-17-2011, 11:40 PM

Ok. So I took a reading tonight and it is at 1.0, so I'm assuming it is basically done fermenting. It's been in the secondary since January 1st. Should I still leave it in there a couple more weeks or move to the third carboy and let it sit for a month or two before bottling?
Oh, and it tastes great! At least to my novice taste...

**CidahMastah** · 01-18-2011, 12:08 PM

If it is 1.000 you are good. I would:
Is there a large amount of lees in your bottle? if yes I would:
1. rack if into a third carboy and sulphite 30PPM - if the cider smells sulphury, you may want to skip or lighten the sulphiting for this racking. Top off with juice or water. It will restart fermenting the new sugar, and that is ok. Let it finish and clear

2. Do sulphite when you bottle.
IMHO

Glad it is some good hooch!

phillybrew · 01-18-2011, 06:29 PM

Thanks. There is a large amount of lees, so I will rack within the next couple days. And I did smell a slight sulphury smell, so I'll reduce that.

Thanks!