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Old 09-30-2012, 10:59 PM   #581
highgravitybacon
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Default Exploding bottles and poo in my pants

So let's talk about the physiological response to exploding bottles. Specifically the wet, hollow pop when a 16oz bottle detonated 1 foot from your wiener. It invokes a strong desire to empty ones bowels directly into an unacceptable space -- the undergarment.

I know this because that's how I felt when one, no, it was two, bottles exploded. Not because the process is flawed. No, instead I thought I was canning tomatoes or something. What you don't want to do is blanche the bottles in an ice water bath.

Look, you don't need to tell me. Its a bad idea. Little self said, "hey maybe you should do this." Big self said, "Shut up nancy boy. We're going to chill this crap right now."

So when the steamer basket with 10 hot ciders went into the ice water, it took all of maybe 3 seconds before one exploded sending bits of glass and hot cider all over, then before I could even think, think of saying WTF!? a second exploded.

My advice would be to not do that.

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Old 10-01-2012, 01:43 PM   #582
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Water at 20 degrees C will be fine, lower than that and you risk a vast thermal shock and the explosions you mention. We drop our 73 degree bottles in to water at 20 at it's fine. At your own risk of course.

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Old 10-04-2012, 01:27 AM   #583
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Default commercially available tool for monitoring psi during hot water bath pasteurization?

This thread is an internet gem. Thank you for keeping it alive! I have looked unsuccessfully for a gauge to monitor in-bottle pressure while pasteurizing in a hot water bath. Does anybody know if this is available, and if so where? I've just started using this technique, and it's working so far but could be made immensely safer with a pressure gauge. I see several do it yourself options that look easy enough, but just curious to know if there is anything on the market. I've worked out a diagram for a gauge that can be attached to a standard beer bottle and reused, but don't want to jump through the hoops of making it if it's already out there somewhere!

Thanks!

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Old 10-05-2012, 01:58 AM   #584
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Default lalvin ec-1118 beware

A quick note for those looking for more anecdotal data before they make the plunge to pasteurization ala Pappers, and a heads up for those of you using a particularly aggressive yeast.

Just pasteurized a batch of very sweet girly-pop style cider. (hey its for the holidays...-cough-...really!)

OG 1.062
FG 1.020

cider = store bought pasteurized from concentrate
yeast = Lalvin ec-1118
sugar = brown sugar to 1.062
other = 1/8th tsp cinnamon per gallon
fermentation = 3 days(ec-1118 freight train baby!)
bottle carbonated = 3 hours @ 73 degrees
pasteurization water = 190 degrees then removed from heat and covered for 15 minutes.

That's right, it bottle carbonated in 3 hours. Theres nowhere in my house cooler, and the yeast is a beast with so much sugar remaining in the bottle. I expect a pretty sizable yeast cake.

Total time from pitching yeast to pasteurized bottles....4 days.


Been lurking on these forums for a long time, thanks again for all the info you long time posters have contributed.

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Old 10-05-2012, 05:49 AM   #585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anywhereout View Post
A quick note for those looking for more anecdotal data before they make the plunge to pasteurization ala Pappers, and a heads up for those of you using a particularly aggressive yeast.

Just pasteurized a batch of very sweet girly-pop style cider. (hey its for the holidays...-cough-...really!)

OG 1.062
FG 1.020

cider = store bought pasteurized from concentrate
yeast = Lalvin ec-1118
sugar = brown sugar to 1.062
other = 1/8th tsp cinnamon per gallon
fermentation = 3 days(ec-1118 freight train baby!)
bottle carbonated = 3 hours @ 73 degrees
pasteurization water = 190 degrees then removed from heat and covered for 15 minutes.

That's right, it bottle carbonated in 3 hours. Theres nowhere in my house cooler, and the yeast is a beast with so much sugar remaining in the bottle. I expect a pretty sizable yeast cake.

Total time from pitching yeast to pasteurized bottles....4 days.


Been lurking on these forums for a long time, thanks again for all the info you long time posters have contributed.
Mine went pretty quick too. However, if I had to do it over again I would let the cider ferment completely out, cold crash, then back sweeten to 1.010 or so and THEN bottle and pasteurize. The 3 days I let it go wasn't quite enough. There still was a fair amount of yeast in suspension (I used safbrew s-33) and as a result the ciders currently have an odd yeasty unpleasantness to them.

Oh well. It's like 6.9% abv so there's plenty of punch to make you forget about the yeasty flavor.

Just and FYI about the exploding bottle reply. I was mowing the lawn today and found a razor sharp bottle neck that was from the exploding bottle series. It flew about 20 feet away. Not bad.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:11 PM   #586
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Im getting ready to bottle and pasteurize my first batch of cider. I ran an experiment (and posted the results below) to figure out the temps that would be reached inside the bottle. My question is, how hot do I need to get my cider to kill the yeast (nottingham ale)? If I need to get my temps higher, I can remove 2 and use more water.

Results from my experiment:
8 - 22oz. Bottles
2.5 gallons of water

I filled my bottles with 65* water, added them to the hot water bath @190*.
Every 5 mins, I removed a different bottle, inverted it several times to mix, and took a temperature reading. Re-capped the bottle, and returned it to the bath.
Bottle temp. Bath temp.
@5 min 124 150
@10 min 133 143
@15 min 135 140
@20 min 138 140

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Old 10-05-2012, 08:20 PM   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highgravitybacon View Post
Mine went pretty quick too. However, if I had to do it over again I would let the cider ferment completely out, cold crash, then back sweeten to 1.010 or so and THEN bottle and pasteurize. The 3 days I let it go wasn't quite enough. There still was a fair amount of yeast in suspension (I used safbrew s-33) and as a result the ciders currently have an odd yeasty unpleasantness to them.

Oh well. It's like 6.9% abv so there's plenty of punch to make you forget about the yeasty flavor.

Just and FYI about the exploding bottle reply. I was mowing the lawn today and found a razor sharp bottle neck that was from the exploding bottle series. It flew about 20 feet away. Not bad.
I agree with you on cold crashing and back sweetening (and starting with just enough sugar to get the desired ABV). My next sweet/carbonated batch will go that route. Now I'm hoping the dead yeast drops out of suspension with time. But you're right, if you pound the first one your tastebuds dont notice the yeast flavor learning....learning...
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:32 PM   #588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisVZ View Post
Im getting ready to bottle and pasteurize my first batch of cider. I ran an experiment (and posted the results below) to figure out the temps that would be reached inside the bottle. My question is, how hot do I need to get my cider to kill the yeast (nottingham ale)? If I need to get my temps higher, I can remove 2 and use more water.

Results from my experiment:
8 - 22oz. Bottles
2.5 gallons of water

I filled my bottles with 65* water, added them to the hot water bath @190*.
Every 5 mins, I removed a different bottle, inverted it several times to mix, and took a temperature reading. Re-capped the bottle, and returned it to the bath.
Bottle temp. Bath temp.
@5 min 124 150
@10 min 133 143
@15 min 135 140
@20 min 138 140

I would go minimum 140 bottle temp, sustained for at least 6 minutes to be safe and not pasteurizing allllllll day long, but if you can't get that temperature in bottle you can do it by sustaining 130 for a longer period of time (this is safer also). increasing your volume of water per bottle is your best bet for getting more heat into the bottles before the entire bath cools so i would look to that first. (I have little experience pasteurizing cider, but lots of canning). looking for the chart that has times per temperature...i know its here somewhere...

also keep in mind removing the lid 4 times in 20 minutes and reintroducing a bottle that slightly cooled during measurements will impact water temperature. I pull my pot off the burner, cover and put a dry bathroom towel over it
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Last edited by anywhereout; 10-05-2012 at 08:35 PM. Reason: add info
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Old 10-06-2012, 04:47 AM   #589
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So, 140 for 6 min. Thanks. I knew someone knew the answer, just couldnt find it. Looks like I will be using 3 gal. of water and only doing 6 at a time.

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Old 10-12-2012, 04:40 PM   #590
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Are people still heating their water up above 140, then inserting their cider with the assumption it will fall?

I still can't understand why you would do that. Here's what I did last night:
1. put bottles in a pot
2. fill pot with hottest water out of the tap
3. heat pot on stove to 140
4. leave it there for a while

I assume this will work as long as #4 is long enough. Heating up hot water just to drop cold glass into it is a bad idea. Heating glass too fast isn't as dangerous as cooling it too fast, but it definitely doesn't help, especially when the contents are under pressure, and I don't see a reason for it.

"Glass containers should not be subjected to excessive "thermal shock"; when heating products in glass containers, it is recommended that the thermal shock temperature difference be kept below 20C and under no condition to exceed 40C. When cooling a hot product in a glass container, temperatures are more critical; 10C is a desitable maximum and under no conditions should the temperature change exceed 20C"

Source: Handbook of Food Preservation, Second Edition

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