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Old 01-22-2011, 10:28 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by AzuredEyed View Post
Perhaps a dumb question . . . .

Has anyone tried this with Grolsch "Flip Top" bottles?
i have. essentially, it worked, but the seals fizzed on most of the bottles despite using a lower kill temperature. i described what happened previously in this thread. i didn't check/change the seals since they held water fine when shaken violently. so far all have retained carbonation well despite the fizzing. one was actually a gusher when opened, as i failed to get the first batch of four bottles hot enough, but the subsequent batches are fine. suggesting that not THAT much gas was lost through fizzing?? dunno
i guess you could test the seal by buying a bottle of grolsch (is there a non-dutch person anywhere in the world who can pronounce grolsch) and heating it
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Old 01-24-2011, 05:35 PM   #182
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So I just pasturized two batches of cider, yesterday, and had no issues until the last batch of 6 bottles, just like mattco. I used the same procedure from the previous page and everything went perfectly until the very last batch. I was in the house and heard a strange sound, and then it dawned on me that it sounded like a bottle exploding. So I went into the garage and sure enough, the lid on my pot was almost off. I took a quick peak inside, and the bottles were all laying down. I still had 4 minutes for the batch to finish, so I just covered them batck up and waited. When the time finished, I very gently removed them one at a time. I got 4 of them out and was reaching in for number 5, when BOOOOOOOM, one of the four exploded. Firtunately I was facing away from them at the time. I only got splashed on my pant legs and shoes with a little hot cider. Most of it ended up on the garage floor. Once I got the last bottle out. I took the pot in the house to let them cool for a few minutes, and to pour off the water so I could get the glass out of the pot. I then brought them into the house, after cleaning up the glass shards strewn about the garage. Then proceded to soak up as much of the cider I could. Thankfully this happened in the garage, and SWMBO was gone too. I know the batch of cider that had the bombs was a bit over carbed, but not enough to prevent pouring one in a glass and not having it foam over. So it must have been just a couple weak bottles. All in all, the pasturization has been working very well. All my ciders are done for the time being. Now it's just time to brew beer and enjoy the cider I have.

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Old 01-28-2011, 12:36 AM   #183
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Have done cider now two years in a row now. Last year just kegged, and filled some bottles off a keg and then kept cold. Really wanted it shelf-stable this year, so gave pasteurization a try this. So after primary, backsweetened with extra juice and concentrate, then bottled. About a week later they were carbed and ready to go.

Followed Pappers' method to a T. Put my brew pot on the stove and did them in batches of 10 bottles. That was on 1/9. Bottles have been at room temp since, and every bottle opened is at the exact carb level it was before pasteurizing. I'm ready to call it a success!

Thanks Pappers!

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Old 02-02-2011, 04:38 PM   #184
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A couple of weeks ago, I posted that I was planning to try the pasteurization process in my eHERMS. It was a great idea, but in the meantime my bottles had, apparently, warmed up a bit (I was keeping them well chilled in the fridge, but needed the fridge for other purposes), resumed fermenting, and 9 of the 12 bottles ended up blowing up like cider-grenades when I brought them up to temp. All of the explosions in the basement got some raised eyebrows from the wife and definitely woke the dog, but all was safely contained in my keggle. In case you're wondering, though, this is what one of those babies looked after processing. Obviously, as others have observed, there's enough force and shrapnel here to do some real damage. So, caveat emptor!

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Old 02-04-2011, 09:23 AM   #185
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wow man so after reading in how many ways this can go wrong isn't it better to ferment dry to FG 1.000 and then use only a little sugar to bottle carb and leave the bootles alone?

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Old 02-04-2011, 02:45 PM   #186
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wow man so after reading in how many ways this can go wrong isn't it better to ferment dry to FG 1.000 and then use only a little sugar to bottle carb and leave the bootles alone?
I've done that too, but ended up with a very dry cider. If you want to keep a bit of sweet to offset the acid, you have to do something to keep the yeasties from eating all the sugar. There are various ways to end up with a sweet, sparkling cider. This just happens to be the noisiest.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:29 PM   #187
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Man - I've read through 19 pages of this and I still can't say that I have any confidence whatsoever...

I've got a cider fermenting right now - been bubbling heartily for 5-6 days and is about to reach the 1.02 range... I basically want a "more-dry" Woodchuck Draft Cider (anyone ever have Five Seeds by Toohees in Australia? That's what I'm aiming for...) I definitely want "sparkling."

I used a champagne cider which I didn't realize would consume ALL the sugar - still learning all the science of this... Obviously I don't want it to do that, so I need to stop fermentation, but still want sparkling - it's begining to get confusing...

I think what I'm going to do is letting it hit 1.02, then putting it in the garage which is still quite cold (Western PA - temps in 30's still) to let it cold crash a little bit, then racking to a bottling bucket with a priming sugar and bottling. I'll keep it in the garage to slow the carbonation process, and also use one plastic soda bottle to "test-squeeze." Then I'll cautiously try Pappers's method - though I strongly think a safer method would be to put the bottles in the water at room temp and slowly heat the water to the desire temp, instead of dropping bottles into hot water (would obviously want a temp diffuser at the bottom of the pan though). Basically I'm going to do everything I can to keep the carbonation process SLOW, so as to prevent missing a potentially-narrow window of opportunity to do this safely.

Thoughts?

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Old 02-14-2011, 04:31 PM   #188
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@Viperman

You are doing things significantly different than I do (champagne yeast rather than ale yeast, 1.020 sg rather than 1.010 or 12, plus the cold crashing). Have you considered letting the cider ferment to dry, then adding both sugar to carbonate and non-fermentable sweetener (like splenda) to backsweeten? No need to pasteurize then.

For what it's worth, I've made dozens of five gallon batches using the pasteurizing method described without a broken bottle.

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Old 02-14-2011, 04:40 PM   #189
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I still think the best way is to gee a kegging set up, even if basic. Once you have that you have the tools to back sweeten and carb without the risks of bottle bombs.

Just like in canning, the more you re-use the bottles, the more likely it is that you will wear them down and get a bottle to crack and break.

With a keg it is easy and reliable. Ferment dry, cold crash 24 hours, rack off lees into bottling bucket, add sorbate, add backsweetening sugar and malic acid if needed, sulphite at 30 PPM and to your keg to force carb. You can always bottle after they carb in the keg.

A basic single keg set up is pretty reasonable. If you are a cider junky, well work the investment.

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Old 02-14-2011, 05:39 PM   #190
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Thanks for the replies.

I really don't want to back-sweeten as I want the natural apple sugars to come through (I started with a non-pasteurized, ultra-fresh cider that was the most amazing stuff I ever tasted...)

I stopped home at my lunch break and decided to check on things, and discovered that I'm already at 1.02. Problem is, we're expecting temps in the 40's and even 50's this week, so I'm not sure how well cold-crashing is going to work (don't have a fridge big enough to fit a bucket in.)

But I stuck it in the garage anyways (currently 47 degrees) to start slowing it down - I figure if it gets to a 1.015 or so I'd still be alright with it. (By the way I tasted it - good, but way too much cinnamon.)

One quick question I have is this: What is the end effect if I let a bottle carbonate, open it, then reseal it? If it's really cold, will it hold enough carbonation or taste funky/flat? My thought was to bottle it, let it carbonate, then open the bottles and drop in some crushed campden tablets to kill the yeast.

The campden tablet bottle says to add more caplets just before you bottle wine, so my guess is it doesn't add any pressure, flavor, or otherwise harmful "stuff", and should be okay to recap after adding. Of course, I could be wrong...

The only other idea I have is to rack it, get it as cold as I can, rack it again, then bottle it, and hope that just enough yeast sticks around to bottle carb...

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