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Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > Diseases and infections?
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:13 PM   #1
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Default Diseases and infections?

I don't have any personally...
But I'm wondering what are possible diseases and infections you can get in your cider?
Can someone may be put down a list, may be a few words about them and how they can be remedied?

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Old 03-01-2013, 04:28 PM   #2
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Diseased cider? That's sounds gross.

Any of the beer spoilage organisms can contaminate cider, especially Acetobacter, resulting in apple cider vinegar (which does have its uses). The souring bacteria can also easily contaminate cider, including Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus, Pediococcus, which may or may not result in something gross.

Post infection, you are stuck with what you got. Preventing contamination comes with good sanitizing practice, just the same as beer.

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Old 03-01-2013, 04:32 PM   #3
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It's not a disease or infection per se...but Wet Cardboard, Prune or Sherry Flavors come to mind when I think of issues with bottled brews.

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Old 03-01-2013, 04:56 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickled_Pepper
It's not a disease or infection per se...but Wet Cardboard, Prune or Sherry Flavors come to mind when I think of issues with bottled brews.
Yes, my test batch of Blackcherry has a prune meat juice taste to it? What's that
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:15 PM   #5
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Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus, Pediococcus?
Can someone explain these infections, what they do and how to fix them?

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Old 03-01-2013, 05:15 PM   #6
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Carboard, Prune and Sherry are usually associated with oxidation. I've tasted it in some beers I stashed and found about 10 years later...I've never tasted oxidation in my ciders.

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Old 03-01-2013, 05:22 PM   #7
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This is a pretty good article that explains all four in winemaking.

http://www.practicalwinery.com/janfeb09/page4.htm

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Old 03-01-2013, 06:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerBrigade View Post
Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus, Pediococcus?
Can someone explain these infections, what they do and how to fix them?
These yeast (Brett) and bacteria (Lacto/Pedio/Aceto) are ubiquitous in the environment, ie. they are everywhere. Brett can ferment sugars that Sacc cannot, and also produce phenols and acetic acid as byproducts of fermentation. Lactobacillus and Pediococcus produced lactic acid and some diacetyl as byproducts of fermentation. Acetobacter can convert the ethanol in your fermented wine/cider into acetic acid (vinegar).

It is hard to "fix" contamination with these organisms after it has occured. It is best to try and prevent contamination. Sulphur dioxide is used to stop the growth of these organisms, and can be used to make your wine/cider as the paper said "microbiologically stable." Although once contamination has occurred, and off flavors are being produced, it is too late.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:03 PM   #9
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Keeping oxygen out will prevent most infections because things like acetobacter and film yeast are aerobic. These are 2 of the commonest infections (film yeast and acetobacter both float on the surface). Lactic Acid Bacteria (LAB) like pediococcus eat the malic acid, so doing a MLF will protect against them, also so2. Wild yeast like brett are less of a problem in cider than wine, and can be prevented by using so2. If you keep air out, have a pH under 3.6 and use so2 you are very unlikely to have problems, the only exception is H2S (rotten eggs) which isn't an infection.

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Old 03-02-2013, 12:20 AM   #10
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This is a topic which has been bugging me for about a year now. If you would be so kind as too indulge me . . .

Rant on-

One of the best things a cidermaker can do to improve their products is to educate themselves in regards to common wine faults and flaws. Gaining a sensory awareness of issues is the first step in prevention and treatment. I've found this to be generally lacking in US cider culture, among both amateurs and professionals (which is especially frustrating). Interestingly enough, this ignorance doesn't seems to be as prevalent in the wine or beer world, were sensory evaluation is one of the first things taught/learned. This lack of proper understanding based on low experience is creating a belief among many new consumers (most cider drinkers are new to cider as a product) that these faults and flaws are "just how cider is supposed to taste" and irks me to no end.

As part of my job I taste and evaluate a pretty wide range of both homemade and commercial craft ciders on a regular basis. I'd venture to guess that around 60% have some sort of significant flaw with diacetyl VA, & oxidation being the main culprits.

Take a wines class, the BJCP exam, or just read up online. Much of the information applies to cider as well.
http://www.bcawa.ca/winemaking/flaws.htm
http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm

DO NOT ACCEPT SUB-PAR CIDER

-Rant off

Luckily, minimizing exposure to air and the proper use of sulfites are two of the best tools available to cidermakers looking to avoid infection and they are cheap, easy, & inexpensive.




Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbathurst View Post
Wild yeast like brett are less of a problem in cider than wine
This seems counter to logic as cider has a lower ABV and higher pH than most wines, leaving it more vulnerable overall. Could you expand on this thought? I may be missing something.
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