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Old 10-04-2011, 10:03 PM   #11
Jacob_Marley
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You're very welcome. Here's a bit more ... another novel ... too much time on my hands today ...

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Originally Posted by gammonite View Post
Okay, I have managed to clarify this batch of cider by filtering it. I was worried about the flavour being stripped out like some people warn. I noticed no difference and am very pleased with the clarity. ... My question, is: how much sugar and how much and what type of yeast?
Ultra filtration can remove tannins but I think it is more a consideration with the use of fining agents.

For the sugar ...
For carbonating, you could use priming tabs (sugar tablets) for ease of use - available at the brewers supply ... or for sugar the typical measure I think most use is about ¾ to 1 cup sugar to 5 gallons wort/must.

While I’m at it ... just for the hell of it ...
Doing it the technical way though means knowing about how many “volumes” of CO2 your beverage should properly have (i.e. ale verses lager verses stout verses cider etc), and then knowing how much CO2 is already in the wort or must. The amount of CO2 already absorbed has to do with the temperature during ferment while all that CO2 was bubbling around.

Compared to beer ... the *suggested* volume of CO2 for cider is kinda all over the map ... from 1.0 to 3.5.
(here’s a good list for some suggested volumes of C02 ... http://tinyurl.com/3vl9kg3 )
I’d say, shooting almost right up the middle would be about 2.4 ... so ...

If your fermentation was done at, say, 70*f, you should have about .85 of a volume of CO2 in it already (provided you have not off-gassed it in some way).
Sooo ... 2.4 - .85 leaves a CO2 shortfall of 1.55.
To get 1.55 volumes into your cider by adding priming sugar ... 1/2oz of sucrose (cane or beet sugar) per gallon will ferment to give 1 volume of CO2 ... so, 1.55 x ½ oz = about .775 oz sugar which is about 4.65 teaspoons per gallon or 3.875 ounces for 5 gallons.
So if there’s 6tea per oz then 3.875x6 = 23.25 teaspoons per 5 gallons, or just very slightly under half a cup (0.484 cup).
Personally, I like the fizz ... I’d just go with the standard ¾ cup per 5 gallons and see what happens. If you are planning to refrigerate or pasteurize the bottles to stop the yeast once they are up to pressure you should be fine either way even if you do overprime a bit.

As far as the yeast ...
If you do have to add more yeast to prime, I'd typically use the same yeast as I’d used in the ferment. Although in a difficult environment ... low temp, high alcohol, low pH etc ... I might select a yeast based on that too.

For cider, I’d think the same yeast would be fine.

Another exception might be if I also intended to bottle pasteurize the wine (with hot water), and was concerned about flavor change or issues with pectin, and my fermenting yeast had been something that was somewhat more heat tolerant like Wyeast 3267 Bordeaux, Lalvin EC-1118, or Red Star Premier Cuvee etc ... in which case, I’d use something with a little less temperature tolerance (after trying to fine-out or remove the fermenting yeast from suspension as possible). But if you used an ale yeast (or somesuch) you should be good to go. In an ale yeast, Nottingham is less heat tolerant than, for instance, Windsor ... and Windsor a bit less heat tolerant than most wine yeasts. Pasteurization concerns though are probably an odd exception though.
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:23 PM   #12
gammonite
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Hmmmm.. I thought I posted this already. Oh well, here goes again.

Jacob_Marley: Keep those novels coming. Lots of great information there.

I do have one question though. Being a details person (probably too detailed at times) and the fact that I live in the metric world but still use gallons, I am not sure what gallons you are refering to. In Canada, we use Imperial gallons generally. Is it the Imperial (160oz) gallon or American (128oz) gallon that you are referencing? There is substantial difference in volume. My guess it is the American gallon. If I just follow your ratio, I would under prime which is no big deal. I want the result to be fizzy though.

Thanks for all the detail!

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Old 10-06-2011, 07:35 PM   #13
Jacob_Marley
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You’re welcome.
Yeah, I can be kinda detail oriented. In my previous profession (finance) I was the guy who enjoyed reading tax code for humors ... and a couple beers can result in a couple hours of witty banter on credit default swaps and risk analysis ... woo-hoo!.

Being data manic is good for developing competency but sometimes a hard way to go through life ;-)

Yup, the american gallon. Without maintaining the ratios and converting the numbers, carbonating in that technical manner would become too inaccurate (if accuracy was what one was after). It doesn't take much to get the volume of CO2 off considerably ... changes as small as 1 tenth (0.1) of an ounce ( 1 g/l ) of priming sugar can produce noticable carbonation changes when you drink it ... as one tenth of an ounce might change the carbonation by somewheres around .25 of a Volume.

But like I was saying, I like the fizz and I'd err to the upper side of the range. You can always halt the fermentation (pressurizing) by putting the bottles in the icebox or pasteurizing.

1 oz (weight) = 28.4 g
1 US gall = 128 US fl oz = 3.8 litre
1 Imperial gall = 160 Imp fl oz = 4.5 litres
1 US fl oz = 29.6 ml
1 Imp fl oz = 28.4 ml


One other point for those of us here in the States, those nice "gallon jugs" that Gallo wine (and others) comes in that are so useful for brewing and vinting ... those are actually 4 liter jugs ... 135 ounces - not 128. It's usually not so important but there are occasions where it can make a difference .... like measuring to carbonate to a specific volume of pressure.

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