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Old 11-29-2008, 04:50 AM   #21
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Well that's a good enough reason for me. I made the mistake to trying to consume too much information from too many diff't posts. I even read some beer posts and wine posts. One post mentioned making sure that there was oxygen in the juice to help the yeast, so of course, I did that. Well, live and learn I guess.

I can see that this would be an addictive hobby. All it will take is one reasonably tasty result, and I'd be starting a new batch every month, while I sip my way through the batch started "x" months ago.

A little longer, a little shorter, a little more sugar, and little less, some blueberry, some back sweetening... yep, it definitely sounds like it would be a consuming passion.

Thanks.

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Old 11-29-2008, 12:40 PM   #22
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My bad, I should have been more specific. Yeast do need oxygen early in the fermentation stage. It helps them reproduce and go to work, stronger and faster. My reference to oxidation is more geared towards after say the first third of the sugars is consumed by the yeast.

You made no mistake, take in as much information as possible. You will hear conflicting opinions, but the more you know, the better your brew.

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Old 11-29-2008, 06:20 PM   #23
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I am really psyched about this. I can't wait until these puppies get some age on them... I wish this part was a video game where I could turn the clock forward.

I will get to check my other batch Monday night... I'll take a little taste of the over-flow batch.

Last time I visited the LHBS, I picked up some Nottingham yeast on the recommendation of the proprietor. If I can find a good, inexpensive apple juice/cider in a gallon jug at the store, I may start my next batch.

Thanks for clearing up the agitation/oxygenation issue. I am glad I didn't deal hosation on my first round. That would have put a big crimp in my enthusiasm.

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Old 11-29-2008, 06:56 PM   #24
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While reading another series of posts, I came across another question. When I do decide to rack off the batch up north, can't I just pour more cider/juice over the lees to continue using that yeast? That batch has a nice vibrance and flavor.

I also culture kefir (a wierd enough hobby in itself) and when doing kefir, you basically keep the same colony of bacteria going all the time, pouring off the fermented milk and adding new on top of the grains.

For kefir, this is standard procedure. I haven't read enough to know if this is counter-recommended for cider / beer / etc. FTR, I am only interested in cider.

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Old 11-29-2008, 07:20 PM   #25
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You can do a search on this forum on washing yeast, I have never done it with ciders since the yeast cake is rather small, and dry wine yeast is rather inexpensive compared to liquid beer yeast. But reusing the yeast cake is possible for a couple of batches, but not forever.

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Old 11-29-2008, 11:25 PM   #26
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This has proven very useful to me and has resulted in simple experimentation becoming 'logical' experimentation: Got Mead - Mead (honeywine) making, mead drinking, mead recipes - Mead Making Calculator
Typical cider is about 1.045 sg, for reference. I can't imagine using store bought apple juice for a happy-fun-cider...after all, if you want a quality product, you should probably start with one. Find whatever cider is in your area, and call the maker and ask how it was pasteurized, if its cold pasteured it still tastes good (UV light) if its heat pasteured it probably tastes like ballsac and you should avoid it. I don't use chemicals to dick over the wild yeast but rather, I add too much of my own yeast (not from my body) to overpower the natural yeast. Some ppl might disagree with this, but it works. In conclusion, get a hydrometer and use it, but not too frequently because you'll increase the likelihood of contamination or airborne yeasts penetrating your defenses and screwing you over.

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Old 11-30-2008, 03:38 AM   #27
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Yes, I have read the yeast washing, and while it's fascinating, I thought that was used if you wanted to set yeast aside (long time between fermentations?). I was thinking about the "never ending batches" that some people do with kombucha (?) tea and the kefir and what not..

Actually, as easy as it is to set up cider, I gues it wouldn't buy you much in the way of time
-- (set up, time to high fermentation activity, etc.)
and would probably do more to put the yeast culture at risk
-- (opening the remaining cider/lees to air, etc.)
than be of any value. It was just a thought.

I am going to have to find a regular non-perservative apple juice in a gallon sized glass jug... I want to start another batch.

Hey, how rare is it for people to serve out of a gallon jug instead of bottle in x-ounce bottles? Is that a pathogen/bacteria risk to the remaining cider? Do campden tablets prevent vinegar? Would that be a valid way to both halting fermentation and protecting against air-borne (vinegar) bacteria in the event that I wanted to "jug it"?

I seriously didn't think I had this many questions, but everything I read makes me think of something else.

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Old 11-30-2008, 07:00 AM   #28
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Default Ballsac is a french wine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldrice View Post
This has proven very useful to me a...: Mead (honeywine) making...
I originally thought I would like to make mead, but every commercial mead I tried was too beery to me. I am not a beer man. I know, "more's the pitty". It sounds like pretty much everybody that does beer is a happy camper/brewer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldrice View Post
Typical cider is about 1.045 sg, for reference. I can't imagine using store bought apple juice for a happy-fun-cider...after all
I agree that the freshest is probably the best. I got two gallons from the orchard in October, and that's what I have to work with in the way of "real cider". I will probably be trying subsequent experiments w/ standard store-bought. Sometimes, ya just have to go with what you got (or can get).

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldrice View Post
call the maker and ask how it was pasteurized, if its cold pasteured it still tastes good (UV light)
Un-pasteurized... one of my experiments is on the natural yeasts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldrice View Post
if its heat pasteured it probably tastes like ballsac and you should avoid it.
OK, I gotta ask... no, I can't. I'm still a newb and guest here, so I'll divert. Ballsac, is that a french wine? ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by coldrice View Post
I don't use chemicals to dick over the wild yeast but rather, I add too much of my own yeast (not from my body) to overpower the natural yeast.
And that's the other part of my home experiment... I didn't have campden tablets, and I just couldn't wait another day. No, really. My wife asked me, and everything. So I pitched a container of yeast on top of the cider & brown sugar. I have no idea wx that was the best idea, but that's what is in that bottle.

Up north, I did the more standard technique... bought an apple juice (past., but not preserved), added brown sugar, and pitched a packet on top. It was bubbling nicely when I left last Thursday.

I am going to see if I can sneak more apple juice into the cart when we go shopping tomorrow. ;-) It's not to early to start another batch, I think.
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Old 11-30-2008, 07:48 AM   #29
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My big problem is finding cider here, I bought two gallons at a natural foods place on sale, for 12 dollars a gallon. Not going to bother with that again.
Even the Walmart treetop stuff is pretty expensive here, at least 25$ just for the juice.
Well, tis the season, maybe I'll be able to find some good sales so I can start my next batch. I spent a good portion of this holiday bottling to clear up kegs and carboys.

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Old 11-30-2008, 04:06 PM   #30
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Yeah, between finding non-preservative stuff and finding not-expensive stuff, it is irritating. Who would have thought that processed apple juice would be so expensive. Between the economy and the season, I would think that apple juice prices would be a lot more reasonable.

I guess from a serving-size stand point, 8 oz of apple juice is only 31 cents, but still...

Hey, anybody have a weigh-in on the storing / service cider in gallon jugs, and wx campden tablets protect against vinegar?

I'm not really set up for bottling, and don't know how far I'd want to pursue that. I guess I should at least look into it, but I am really interesting in having a bottle that I could keep in the 'fridge to pour from. A couple of 4 oz servings a night would get me two weeks on a gallon.

Dang, another quex: How much do you usually lose on the lees? You don't siphon off to that level, because you'd get sediment getting sucked up. Also, what do you DO w/ the left over... can you re-settle the lees into a thinner container and get more off the top? I assume you wouldn't want to drink the lees, but I would hate to waste the cider that they sit in. I am thinking "coffee filter"... hmm...

Rack off the bulk, and re-set the fermentation lock, pour the remaining fluid and lees into a connical filter w/ a melitta paper filter, and drink the cider while you wash the equipment? :-D

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