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Old 10-02-2008, 08:47 PM   #1
toularat
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Default cider or juice

I know using cider or juice has been discussed, but I don't think my question has been answered.
I want to know if fresh cider would have a better taste for Apfelwein than store-bought apple juice. There is a big difference straight out of the bottle, but does that taste difference stay after fermentation, or not?

I just bottled my first Apfelwein and I know I am really going to like it. Can't wait! I would buy fresh cider if others think it will make a difference.

Thanks!!

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Old 10-02-2008, 10:00 PM   #2
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I would recommend the clear juice (that's pasteurized). It's one way we get away with the "pour in a carboy and add yeast" method.

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Old 10-02-2008, 10:54 PM   #3
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Default Cider or Juice?

Its all juice... or Must if you will. To everyone else in the world other than us here in the States cider is a fermented beverage.

Also no need for Pasteurized juice. The reason cider was a "safe" drink back in the olden days is because fermentation kills the bad bugs. The only reason one might need to Pasteurize is to kill the yeast post fermentation if a sweeter cider is desired.

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Old 10-02-2008, 10:59 PM   #4
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My first batch was with pasturized cider from a local mill. It did not clear like my batches of Apelwein did. Fresh cider has a lot of suspended solids in it.

My second batch of apel I could read a paper on the back side of the 5 gal carboy. I couldn't come close to that with the fresh cider in a 22 oz bottle in the same settling time. I think the filtering in the juice helps.

Just my squeeze on it.
CR

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Old 10-02-2008, 11:35 PM   #5
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CiderRat: (love the name btw, I wonder if Rat is in your name for the same reason mine is??)

So which one are you drinkin right now - the real cider or the juice?
Do they taste different? I care about the cloudiness I guess alittle, but I love the taste of real, fresh Cider, and I'm not that crazy about plain apple juice. hence, the question.
I know I will like the finished product either way but if I'll like fresh cider better, I gotta buy it now.

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Old 10-03-2008, 11:54 AM   #6
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The rat is is because I'm always in the cellar where the rats live.

I'm not sure which I prefer. I keep changing more than one variable/ingredient in each batch which changes the taste and alcohol. I now think bottle aging is important. It is tough when we are noobs to be patient. I started drinking my first batch after 1 month in bottles. Maybe its anticipation, we've watched it for a month or two and we want to taste the fruits of our labor. To quote a Ronco commercial, "Set it and forget it."

The cider seemed to mellow with time in the bottle. I have one bottle left from my first batch left that I'm going to wait for its anniversary to drink.

I think the taste is derived more from the yeast than the juice. The Ale yeast did have a more fruity taste compared to the monchrat yeast. But I want to try the cider yeast to see the difference it makes. But I am being patient, it is only in the bottles for 3 weeks now and I don't want to waste a test bottle (12 oz) too early.

I have a cider mill about an hour away that does no preservatives or pasturization. I will try them soon. I want to give it another go at the cider but I want to have more knowledge about the yeast affecting the fermented drink. I found a list of 131 different (manufacturers/types) of yeast for home brewing ales/lagers/lambics (Yeast Strains - Brew Your Own (BYO), the How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine). I have not found a good list for wine yeasts yet. So there really has to be some to the yeast regarding taste.

Sorry for rambling but I am still learning.
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Old 10-03-2008, 12:08 PM   #7
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I currently have a batch of apfelwein aging which I'm cracking open Thanksgiving. I also have 1 liter left of cider made from sweet cider, started the day after Thanksgiving, last year.
Differences:
AW: Juice, sugar, RC-212 yeastcake.
Cider: Sweet Cider, lager yeast.

I'd be happy to sit down and taste both side by side.

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Old 10-03-2008, 01:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtimeydave View Post
Its all juice... or Must if you will. To everyone else in the world other than us here in the States cider is a fermented beverage.

Also no need for Pasteurized juice. The reason cider was a "safe" drink back in the olden days is because fermentation kills the bad bugs. The only reason one might need to Pasteurize is to kill the yeast post fermentation if a sweeter cider is desired.
There is a huge difference between what is usually called cider in the US and apple juice. I think the main reason for the difference is the concentration of the juice that is used for storage of most store bought apple juice. Cider made from fresh pressed apples by local orchards is a far superior beverage.

However I do not have enough experience to know if the difference would still be present in the final fermented product. My feeling is that the cider would make a superior AW but it will probably take longer to clear. I think it would be an excellent experiment to make a batch of both at the same time using the same yeast.

I made a batch of Cyser using fresh cider and the cyser cleared without any problem. However this batch was in the secondary for about 4 months. I also used some pectin enzyme which probably helped with the haze. i would recommend adding the pectinase to your apfelwine if you make it with cloudy juice.

Craig
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Old 10-03-2008, 02:23 PM   #9
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I made apfelwein with the cloudy stuff (from costco) and it cleared without issues about 3 months in secondary. It may have cleared sooner, but I didn't sample any before 3 months.

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Old 10-03-2008, 02:52 PM   #10
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For my .02, I would say that the clearing should be a non-issue. I only have one batch of Apfelwein under my belt though, so take my advise with a grain of salt...

I made Ed's AW to the T, and it is just now starting to be good after about 7 months of aging. I think this will be a very good drink and plan to make it again, but am thinking I will be bulk aging all my batches in carboys for a full year before transferring to keg (or bottling). With that kind of time, and perhaps using a clarifying agent (gelatin?), I have a hard time believing that the cider would not drop clear. I plan to make some cider wine soon so maybe I will post back if I get good results.

Cheers,
Justin

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