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10-29-2010, 01:16 AM   #1
RukusDM
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 Bottle Carbing Idea

I had a question regarding Volumes of CO2 in a carbonated cider. I found a Priming Sugar Calculator. It asks you to enter the Volumes of CO2 you want in the beverage. It then asks you the volume of the liquid in gallons and also the temperature. It then calculates the amount of sugar you need to get the requested number of volumes of CO2.

My question is, what is it refering to when it is asking for the number of volumes of CO2. Is it the number of volumes of the dead space above the liquid or is it the volume of the bottle?

I'd like to take a Grolsh type bottle and put a stopper with a pressure gauge on it. Using Boyles Law, I should be able to calculate the pressure in PSI that I would like to see to provide a number of volumes of CO2. This way I could just view the gauge instead of having to open one every few days or weeks to test.

I think it would be allot safer as you may get a faster or slower ferment than you expect and have a over pressurized bottle or a under pressurized bottle.

I think this could work. Any opinions?

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10-29-2010, 01:20 AM   #2
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It's asking for your desired volumes of co2. As an example, my pale ale is at 2.4 volumes. You may want it a bit "bubblier" and go up to 2.7 or so.

You don't have to gauge it. If the cider is done, and you add the correct amount of priming sugar, you WILL have the correct volume of co2.

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10-29-2010, 01:26 AM   #3
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Yooper_Brew It's asking for your desired volumes of co2. As an example, my pale ale is at 2.4 volumes. You may want it a bit "bubblier" and go up to 2.7 or so. You don't have to gauge it. If the cider is done, and you add the correct amount of priming sugar, you WILL have the correct volume of co2.
I understand the volumes is the multiplier, but multiplying what? In your case, 2.4 volumes of what quantity? The volume of the bottle? The Liquid? or the Volume of the dead space?
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10-29-2010, 01:30 AM   #4
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Yooper_Brew It's asking for your desired volumes of co2. As an example, my pale ale is at 2.4 volumes. You may want it a bit "bubblier" and go up to 2.7 or so. You don't have to gauge it. If the cider is done, and you add the correct amount of priming sugar, you WILL have the correct volume of co2.
Also Yooper, the reason I was interested in doing this is so you can wait till you get the desired SG, and then add the priming sugar without having to wait till its completely dry and then back sweeten to get the taste you wanted.

The way I see that most do it now is they add the sugar and wait some amount of time and test. This would allow me to tell exactly when its done and
then I can pasteurize.

Does this make sense to try?
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10-29-2010, 06:59 AM   #5
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It's not volumes of liquid, it's volumes of CO2 dissolved in the liquid. see this explanation:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/volumes-co2-105955/
The more volumes of CO2 in your cider the more carbonation.

Are you planning on testing the gravity of the bottles regularly to see when it gets back to your desired OG after adding the priming sugar?

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10-29-2010, 10:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by pimento It's not volumes of liquid, it's volumes of CO2 dissolved in the liquid. see this explanation:http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/volumes-co2-105955/ The more volumes of CO2 in your cider the more carbonation. Are you planning on testing the gravity of the bottles regularly to see when it gets back to your desired OG after adding the priming sugar?
I havn't worked out all of the details yet, so I don't know. I guess that would make some sense, but I havn't read that anyone does this.

I think that if the priming sugar calculation works, when I reach the calculated pressure, the priming sugar should be gone. So in reality, it would be aproximatly right.

The only reason I was concidering this was that I've read a fair amount about bottle bombs and undercarbed cider.

I would see the procedure as calculating and adding the priming sugar, then fill all the bottles desired, and then fill the test bottle and cap everything.
I would then monitor the pressure in the test bottle until I reach the desired pressure, Then pasturize. I have not bottle carbed yet, I'll be doing my first batch this weekend, so I don't understand all of the details yet. My thoughts were that if you add priming sugar and you wait a specific time to test the old way, depending on the activity of the yeast on the prime sugar, you may get inconsistant gassing rates of the cider.

For example, if I was using a more agressive yeast, I may not get the same gas rate as if I was using something more mild, so Time testing may not provide consistant results. You may get a over or under carbed bottle.

I may be overthinking this but thats what happens I guess when your in the engineering field
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10-29-2010, 12:37 PM   #7
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Ok, I read the post you were refering to regarding the desription of what 1 volume of CO2 is.

Got_Trub defined in that post
"1 volume is 1 liter of CO2 at 1 atmosphere in 1 liter of fluid (beer). You can substitute gal for liter."

So it is related to the volume of liquid.

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10-30-2010, 08:00 AM   #8
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Yes, it's the volume of the CO2 dissolved in the liquid compared to the volume of the liquid.

Using the pressure to figure the carbonation level could probably work since I think some keggers do it this way when they naturally carbonate instead of using gas.

Are there pressure gauges you can get to fit a grolsch type bottle?

If not, i wonder if a small paintball cylinder with a pressure gauge would work.

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10-30-2010, 12:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by pimento Yes, it's the volume of the CO2 dissolved in the liquid compared to the volume of the liquid. Using the pressure to figure the carbonation level could probably work since I think some keggers do it this way when they naturally carbonate instead of using gas. Are there pressure gauges you can get to fit a grolsch type bottle? If not, i wonder if a small paintball cylinder with a pressure gauge would work.
Well we have a number of sizes at work, but I'll probably have to drill a hole in the stopper and put a stem in it.

If I'm unable to drill the hole in the original stopper, I'll probably spin one up out of nylon or delron on the lathe, and thread a drilled hole in it.

To me, the whole idea is to be able to tell when the gas pressure is right for carbonation, and be a bit easier to get a repeatable result.
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11-02-2010, 09:09 PM   #10
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I did a interm test with a regular pop bottle. I wanted to test it this way prior to spinning up a new cap for the Grolsch bottle.

This is a 30 PSI gauge that I installed into the Pop bottle cap. I drilled and tapped the cap, screwed the gauge in and then epoxied it in to seal it.

This reading is 2.5 Hours after priming sugar was added and capped. Once I know this works, I'll plot a table with pressure vs SG reading to see if I can predict when it will make it to 29.4 Lbs which should be 2 Volumes if I recall correctly.

It may require a 50 Lb Gauge in the future if it all works out.

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