Boiling instead of sulfates?

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agregory413

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So I've been reading alot about ciders lately, and it has me wondering about killing the yeast off for back sweetening. I hear alot of people using potassium sorbate, or heating them after they are bottled. Shouldn't I be able to pull it from the fermenter and boil it, cool it, then rack it into the keg? Not sure if I am thinking too far into this. Just seems like there is an easier way for those of us that keg, and don't want added sulfur flavors.
 
The boiling point of ethanol is roughly 173 F. Water boils at 212 F.

The reason why people pasteurize is because it maintains the alcohol and kills the yeast. Higher than 173 and you neuter your cider.
 
agregory413 said:
So I've been reading alot about ciders lately, and it has me wondering about killing the yeast off for back sweetening. I hear alot of people using potassium sorbate, or heating them after they are bottled. Shouldn't I be able to pull it from the fermenter and boil it, cool it, then rack it into the keg? Not sure if I am thinking too far into this. Just seems like there is an easier way for those of us that keg, and don't want added sulfur flavors.
Click to expand...

The boiling point of alcohol is lower than the boiling point of water. You'll kill the yeast, but boil the alcohol off, probably not what you're looking for. Pasteurization is an option though, keeping it below the boiling point of alcohol.
 
Gotcha... Wouldn't want to neuter the cider. I was thinking boiling just to keep it from getting infected after the fermentation. Would it be safe to sanitize a pot and then raise temp to 120-130ish? Or is potassium sorbate my best option being that I am kegging?
 
You would have to keep It at 120-130 for a while to pasteurize. You want to maintain a temperature of 150 ish foray least 20 minutes. There's wiggle room but that should do it. I'm surely timing isn't exact, since I'm not looking it up, but that should work


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Somewhere on this site there's a post about temps and pasteurizing. When I pasteurize in bottle, I remember it saying as long as you hold the temperature at 140F for 6 minutes it will kill all the yeast. The time gets shorter as the temperature goes up.
 
I see a discrepancy between what is "needed" to pasteurize and yeast pitching temps. Seems like a vary large window. People talk about pitching at 100° and getting no ferment. Is the higher heat used in pasteurization used to shock and kill quickly to avoid letting the yeast get into the "off flavor" stage for too long?
 
Descender said:
I see a discrepancy between what is "needed" to pasteurize and yeast pitching temps. Seems like a vary large window. People talk about pitching at 100° and getting no ferment. Is the higher heat used in pasteurization used to shock and kill quickly to avoid letting the yeast get into the "off flavor" stage for too long?
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No expert here, but when you're pasteurizing, you are killing more than just the brewers yeast, you're also killing other wild yeast and bacteria which may be able to survive higher temps than the brewers yeast. You're also wanting to kill 100% of the yeast, 90% may be good enough to screw up your fermentation, but could still make some bottle bombs if given enough time.
 
That's the link I followed but make sure you somehow monitor the temp in the bottle. Sometimes the in bottle temperature doesn't get up to the right temp. Even if you heat it to 190. I found out the hard way with gushers.
 
I am lazy. I did my first 2 batches of Apfelwein completely dry, carbonated half, bottled half still. Most people prefer it dry in my experience. If not, I add honey to the glass, it adds complexity and sweetness. You can even do simple sugar in the glass, same effect.

That way you have a carbonated, dry or sweet Apfelwein. Can't do that when back sweetening.
 
Well all that helps alot. I was also curious if I keg it and leave it in the fridge, I should be able to back-sweeten and leave it because the yeast wont be active at under 40 degrees right?
 
agregory413 said:
So I've been reading alot about ciders lately, and it has me wondering about killing the yeast off for back sweetening. I hear alot of people using potassium sorbate, or heating them after they are bottled. Shouldn't I be able to pull it from the fermenter and boil it, cool it, then rack it into the keg? Not sure if I am thinking too far into this. Just seems like there is an easier way for those of us that keg, and don't want added sulfur flavors.
Click to expand...

you can do that, though I wouldn't recommend boiling, as it would remove your alcohol, and make your house stink. For small batches i often put my cider in a large stainless steel pot and put it in the oven to kill the yeast before backsweetening and force carbing. I'm assuming you're force carbing if you're using a keg. I bottle after force carbing, and there have been no bottle bombs to report as of yet.
 
agregory413 said:
Well all that helps alot. I was also curious if I keg it and leave it in the fridge, I should be able to back-sweeten and leave it because the yeast wont be active at under 40 degrees right?
Click to expand...

That would work, but it would need to stay refrigerated until it was consumed. Not that always having cold cider at hand is a chore. :)
 

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