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Old 11-15-2011, 11:07 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Yooper

Well, that's completely incorrect. BUT I'm not here to argue! If that's your experience and your belief, that's cool.

I'm just trying to get it clear for people who may be new cider or winemakers. Dry= opposite of sweet in ALL wine/cider/meadmaking terms. Maybe in Normandy they're speaking a different language? Dry, as in not sweet, is a well recognized term in winemaking. A dry cider is NOT sweet. Dry is most often defined as .990-1.000.
Yeah, you're wrong. I don't want to argue either, but 'dry' is a mouth feel, 'sweet' is a taste. I've done 3rd wave coffee for years and I can tell you, dry and sweet are not antonyms.

Yes, a lack of sweet makes your bev dry, but its the lack of natural sugars that create the dryness. you can back sweeten all you want and it will still have the sharp dry mouth feel...
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:36 AM   #32
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Yeah, you're wrong. I don't want to argue either, but 'dry' is a mouth feel, 'sweet' is a taste. I've done 3rd wave coffee for years and I can tell you, dry and sweet are not antonyms.
I don't know wtf "third wave coffee" is and what it has to do with wine/mead/cider, but it terms of making fermented beverage, Sweet and DRY are antonyms.

Here's the definition from 3 randomly selected online wine dictonaries, if you're not satisfied I can fill this post with 50 or more quotes substantiating this as well.

Quote:
Dry:
Not sweet,
in the same way that "cold" means not hot...
hmmm...sounds like the opposite to me.

More.

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Wine Terms: Dry

This term refers to the amount of sugar in a wine after fermentation. Dry wine types have sugars that have all been used up to create alcohol. Sweet wine types have not used up all of their sugars to create alcohol. Sweet is commonly confused with fruity but if you try any typical red wine or white wine and compare it to a dessert wine you will taste the difference between this and a fruity drier wine. This is not about the fruitiness of a wine but its sweetness.


Tasting:
Pick a red or a white wine, such as Cabernet Sauvignon, or Sauvignon Blanc.
Pick a dessert wine or a fortified wine. I would recommend a Muscat Canelli, or a Port, for instance.
Both have distinctly fruity flavors but you will see that the red or white wine lack the sweetness of the dessert wine.
Quote:
Dry - The opposite of sweet when describing wines. Sweetness is tasted on the front of the tongue and starts to become noticeable to most people when the residual sugar is above 1%.
I'm just sayin.......
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Old 11-15-2011, 11:51 AM   #33
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Yeah, you're wrong. I don't want to argue either, but 'dry' is a mouth feel, 'sweet' is a taste. I've done 3rd wave coffee for years and I can tell you, dry and sweet are not antonyms.

Yes, a lack of sweet makes your bev dry, but its the lack of natural sugars that create the dryness. you can back sweeten all you want and it will still have the sharp dry mouth feel...
In common usage, for beer, wine and cider, dry is the opposite of sweet.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:18 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhunter87

Yeah, you're wrong. I don't want to argue either, but 'dry' is a mouth feel, 'sweet' is a taste. I've done 3rd wave coffee for years and I can tell you, dry and sweet are not antonyms.

Yes, a lack of sweet makes your bev dry, but its the lack of natural sugars that create the dryness. you can back sweeten all you want and it will still have the sharp dry mouth feel...
Nope. There's very little, if any, difference between sugars left over after fermentation, and sugars that have been added - depending on the sugar(s) added, of course.

That "dry" mouthfeel you're talking about is likely what's referred to as astringency, not dryness.

You validated your stance by saying that bitter, instead of dry, is the opposite of sweet. Absolutely untrue. Sweetness and bitterness are sensed by entirely different receptors. Sweetness and bitterness can both exist side-by-side, although we perceive this as balanced. For example, just because water is not sweet, does not make it bitter.

So when referring to beer/wine/cider/etc, dry (rather than bitter) refers to a lack of sugars, since an absence of sugar doesn't make something bitter - the presence of compounds that activate the bitterness receptors on the tongue is what makes something bitter.
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:22 AM   #35
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Yeah, you're wrong.
HBT Rule of Thumb: Yooper knows what she's talking about until conclusively and exhaustively proven otherwise.
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:55 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy

I don't know wtf "third wave coffee" is and what it has to do with wine/mead/cider, but it terms of making fermented beverage, Sweet and DRY are antonyms.

Here's the definition from 3 randomly selected online wine dictonaries, if you're not satisfied I can fill this post with 50 or more quotes substantiating this as well.

hmmm...sounds like the opposite to me.

More.

I'm just sayin.......
"Cider almost always comes from apples. As with wine, the modifier "dry" means that the natural sugar has been fermented out. And, of course, the use of that word "fermented" means that it is alcoholic. Dry cider, then, is hard cider that contains between 5% and 7% alcohol. It is often clear. It is particularly popular in Britain and Ireland.

Dry cider is more popular as a beverage than as an ingredient for recipes. It is drunk on its own or used in mixed drinks. Because not everyone likes a sugarless cider, some distillers add sugar when they bottle it, but they still call it dry cider. Go figure."


Thhheeeyyyy aaaaddddddd ssssuuuggaaarrr and it's still drryyyyyy

If you have a really dry wine, you can put so much sugar in it that it turns to syrup and it will STILL have the dry mouthfeel.

Third-wave coffee is specialty coffee. Find a really nice shop around you that has direct trade coffee and go talk to them. If you're into wine, coffee would blow you away
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:56 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by emjay

Nope. There's very little, if any, difference between sugars left over after fermentation, and sugars that have been added - depending on the sugar(s) added, of course.

That "dry" mouthfeel you're talking about is likely what's referred to as astringency, not dryness.

You validated your stance by saying that bitter, instead of dry, is the opposite of sweet. Absolutely untrue. Sweetness and bitterness are sensed by entirely different receptors. Sweetness and bitterness can both exist side-by-side, although we perceive this as balanced. For example, just because water is not sweet, does not make it bitter.

So when referring to beer/wine/cider/etc, dry (rather than bitter) refers to a lack of sugars, since an absence of sugar doesn't make something bitter - the presence of compounds that activate the bitterness receptors on the tongue is what makes something bitter.
I never said the word "bitter"...
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:05 AM   #38
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I never said the word "bitter"...
My bad, that was KWKSLVR. Didn't realize there were 2 dead-wrong people.
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Old 11-16-2011, 10:13 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Bhunter87
but they still call it dry cider. Go figure."

Thhheeeyyyy aaaaddddddd ssssuuuggaaarrr and it's still drryyyyyy

If you have a really dry wine, you can put so much sugar in it that it turns to syrup and it will STILL have the dry mouthfeel.
Assuming that quote's correct, it never said that it's still dry. It says they still call it "dry cider", which is a big difference. I'm willing to buy that they refer to it as "dry cider", but that's still not what dry actually means.

And again, that "dry" mouthfeel is referred to as astringency, not dryness. And in fact, having sugar added back in after the fact will not magically give it a different mouthfeel than the same amount of sugar being left over from fermentation...
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:20 PM   #40
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Yeah, you're wrong.
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