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Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > Beer yeast with cider
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:48 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by WilliamSlayer
Badger, as a suggestion, try Wyeast 1968 (English ESB) for the low attenuation rate.
Ok... I will use that in one of these batches, but can you explain attenuation? I've heard this word before on HB talk but don't understand...
Is this the rate of fermentation?

Also, what's ESB?
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Old 01-13-2013, 03:56 PM   #22
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Sure! Attenuation basically refers the percentage of fermentable sugars thhat a yeast strain will consume.

For wild yeasts and beer yeasts the percentage is less than 100, thus the reason why beer can taste sweet (there is still sugar there). This happens partly due to the fact that yeasts don't deal with complex sugars well, and beer wort often contains some of these.

Wine yeasts have been bred differently, in the way a Labrador is different from a Bulldog. Wine yeasts a designed to consume all available sugars, which is not hard with grapes as they contain very few complex sugars.

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Old 01-13-2013, 04:24 PM   #23
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US05 does a decent job!

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Old 01-13-2013, 05:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSlayer
Sure! Attenuation basically refers the percentage of fermentable sugars thhat a yeast strain will consume.

For wild yeasts and beer yeasts the percentage is less than 100, thus the reason why beer can taste sweet (there is still sugar there). This happens partly due to the fact that yeasts don't deal with complex sugars well, and beer wort often contains some of these.

Wine yeasts have been bred differently, in the way a Labrador is different from a Bulldog. Wine yeasts a designed to consume all available sugars, which is not hard with grapes as they contain very few complex sugars.
Great info Slayer! I had no idea of this b/c I'm pretty new to this. I though all yeast just eat all the sugar and the different strains where just different...? Like models of cars, they all drive but are just different...

Ok, so (not to hijack, but I think this is a valid cross-question for the thread) if beer yeast leaves some complex sugars and wine yeast eats it all up then if I'm using a wine yeast and fermentation sticks... (Ill use my batch of stuck cherry for example), added D47, started at 1.092, stuck at 1.034, SO, that being said, for wine yeast that's not normal BUT if I used a beer yeast would the beer yeast have NATURALLY stopped where it did, possibly? Putting my FG at the same place it is now 1.030? I'm at about 7%. So what I meant to say is wine yeast will ferment out but beer yeast won't?
Splain me.... Lol
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:49 PM   #25
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In a nut shell, you got it. :-)

Reward yourself with a tall glass of something for that brainstorm sir!

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Old 01-13-2013, 05:59 PM   #26
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My understanding is that beer yeast strains just aren't as tolerant of the higher alcohol levels of wine yeasts, so trying to ferment a high gravity wine with an ale yeast will result in the yeast pooping out after it reaches 10% abv. (give or take) And because of the strain you will get some different flavor profile characteristics than you would from a wine yeast.

You drive from point A to point B in a Ferrari...you feel cool and people turn their heads...the same trip can be done in a Pinto, but you are always looking over your shoulder so you don't get rear ended and BLOW UP! The Ferrari is a specialize vehicle to get from A to B, and the Pinto is like bread yeast...sure...it will get you buzzed, but people won't compliment you on how sexy it is. (or maybe they will)

Also, ale yeasts won't eat the complex sugars...no yeast deals with them all that well. (like the drunk cousin who shows up unannounced - You let him hang around because it's a melting pot and...holy crap the stories you can tell on Monday morning!) The wort from beer contains the complex sugars (cousin joe) so that is why beer doesn't typically go dry. Ciders and Fruit Juices go dry because they are ALL simple sugars. It doesn't matter what yeast stain you use in fruit juice...it will eventually eat all the simple sugars and go dry within it's alcohol and temp tolerances of course. (the strain will just give you a different profile and will have it's own parameters to work within)

I'm drinking cider getting ready for football playoffs, so maybe my analogies are wonky.

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Old 01-13-2013, 09:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickled_Pepper

You drive from point A to point B in a Ferrari...you feel cool and people turn their heads...the same trip can be done in a Pinto, but you are always looking over your shoulder so you don't get rear ended and BLOW UP! The Ferrari is a specialize vehicle to get from A to B, and the Pinto is like bread yeast...sure...it will get you buzzed, but people won't compliment you on how sexy it is. (or maybe they will)

I'm drinking cider getting ready for football playoffs, so maybe my analogies are wonky.
No, your analogies are cool buddy
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Old 01-14-2013, 01:08 AM   #28
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has anyone used a belgian ale yeast or hefewitzen yeast in a cider? just did one notty and it pooped out a little shy of dry, i pitched sone d47 to dry out and prime/bottle...hope it works

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Old 01-15-2013, 08:08 PM   #29
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I just had a bottle of my one year old weihenstephen cider, which is a wheat beer yeast. Worth checking out! Still tart, but a bit or residual sweetness. Its a nice drinking cider, but took some time to mellow.

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Old 01-16-2013, 04:17 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenM
has anyone used a belgian ale yeast or hefewitzen yeast in a cider? just did one notty and it pooped out a little shy of dry, i pitched sone d47 to dry out and prime/bottle...hope it works
I just started some cider with a Belgian ale yeast. My last batch was with a champagne yeast and I think it just went super dry. I did not take OG readings. I think I should have. My first batch was with wild yeast and it turned out great. Hence I did not bother with the OG reading the last two rounds. Wishing I had.

Can you just take readings periodically and cold crash at a specific number to ensure a less dry cider? Does that kill remaining yeast. Or perhaps add something to kill them off.

Will the Belgium yeast peak at a specific abv which could leave me with some sweetness
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