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Old 06-21-2012, 11:31 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by gregbathurst View Post
Wow, is this really true of cider fruit?
In terms of US law there is no health code distinction between fruit destined for eating and those going into cider.

I remember once seeing a very small and very rural French cider operation harvesting their crop. An elderly man around 70 would climb into the tree and shake the hell out of it. Next, two old crones would pick up all the apples and toss them into crates. They said they wait for a windy storm to pass to do most of the work for them.

Most modern orchards in the US grow dwarf and semi-dwarf, and we've gotten very good at it to the point where yield from an acre of smaller densely packed trees is much greater then the same space full of full sized giants. Although I agree they are prettier to look upon. I would assume that hand picking also influences the predominant US trend of pruning to a central leader as opposed to the more traditional goblet shape.
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Old 06-22-2012, 12:23 AM   #12
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American growers get their trees very cheap. The dwarf trees bear a crop sooner so you get a better return for investment, specially if they are planted close. If the trees are more expensive it doesn't make much commercial sense, so apple orchards are disappearing in Australia. Cider is a way of reducing costs by pruning and spraying less, and machine harvesting, but cider producers face the cheap juice from china.

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Old 06-22-2012, 12:56 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by gregbathurst View Post
American growers get their trees very cheap. The dwarf trees bear a crop sooner so you get a better return for investment, specially if they are planted close. If the trees are more expensive it doesn't make much commercial sense, so apple orchards are disappearing in Australia. Cider is a way of reducing costs by pruning and spraying less, and machine harvesting, but cider producers face the cheap juice from china.
I did not realize trees were more expensive elsewhere, what a shame that you guys are losing your orchards. Is there a strong cultural history of cider making in Australia? Cheap Chinese juice imported in the form of concentrate is common here as well. The taste is unmistakable in both clear juice and in mass produced ciders.
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Old 06-22-2012, 01:20 AM   #14
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Cider in Australia has always been a basic drink, made from leftover 2nd grade apples, and sold fairly sweet. Now they are using concentrate they are allowed to dilute the juice and add sugar, not allowed for fresh juice. There is a lot more cider being drunk these days, but mostly low quality imported stuff. We have lots of boutique wineries around so I think there is room for boutique craft cider places, the laws are pretty relaxed for cider. I think throwing in the cheap concentrate is a big temptation for most cider makers.

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Old 06-22-2012, 04:57 AM   #15
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Absolutly true that you cannot use any apples that have dropped on the ground here. We put large nets at waist level to catch our apples and minimise bruising but then again we only have about 15 trees.

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Old 06-22-2012, 11:53 PM   #16
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The English even have a special tool for picking apples off the ground;

the apple wizard

Andrew Lea the cider guru gives a positive review of it here;

cider workshop

He says its actually made in the USA, quite ironic, I would have thought that is illegal.

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Old 06-23-2012, 12:41 AM   #17
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If you want to purchase from USA http://www.nutwizard.com/prod01.htm

Apparently since we aren't supposed to use drops they have to use a different name?

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:38 PM   #18
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Just noticed this; we have (what I'm pretty sure is) a big red delicious tree that seems to produce exceptionally well about every other year, and sits with one or two apples on the off years. It's certainly the tree, not the frost or bees; neighbors have one just like it that does the same, but two other varieties that are producing this year.

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Old 07-09-2012, 03:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inexplorata
Just noticed this; we have (what I'm pretty sure is) a big red delicious tree that seems to produce exceptionally well about every other year, and sits with one or two apples on the off years. It's certainly the tree, not the frost or bees; neighbors have one just like it that does the same, but two other varieties that are producing this year.
It very well may be the case that the tree requires a season off to recuperate. Although the trees have had apples consecutively before just never in the quantity of last years yield.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:22 PM   #20
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I live in western NY, just east of Buffalo, and this is my spray regimen. I used to go with an all organic schedule, but it was never to my satisfaction and I got lots of pests and borers. Since I switched over, it has been like night and day. The dates are approximate and may fluctuate from year to year, especially determined by your own location. I have a 4 gallon sprayer, so that is why you'll see my quantities listed. I'm now at maximum capacity for my backpack sprayer (14 trees) and I'll soon have to upgrade. Last year I also tried the big red sticky balls that you attach to the tree, but it appears that I do not have an apple fly maggot issue, so this year I have discontinued their use. Always use Personal Protection Equipment and follow your state and local laws regarding chemicals. That's my disclaimer.


1. First Spray: April 12 – April 20. ½” green tip.
Oil and Eagle 20

2. Second Spray: May 8 – May 18. After last flowering
apples have dropped their petals.
Imidan, Captan, Eagle 20

3. Third Spray (about 2 weeks after 2nd spray): May 18 – June 2.
Imidan, Captan, Eagle 20

4. Fourth Spray: July 4th - 9th (Japanese Beetles)
Spectracide Triazicide


Imidan - Insecticide. 4 TBSP per 4 gallons.

Eagle 20 - Fungicide. 1/2 OZ per 4 gallons.

Captan - Fungicide. 12 TBSP per 4 gallons.

Spectracide - Insecticide 12 TBSP per 4 gallons

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