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gratus fermentatio · 10-20-2008, 10:37 PM

OK folks, let's try to reach an understanding here: Apple juice is just that, juice. Apple cider is what we as homebrewers/winemakers/meadmakers & CIDERmakers, etc... make from it. What is commonly labeled & sold as "apple cider" on grocery store shelves is NOT cider. It is apple JUICE. Even the wonderfully tasty, brown, cloudy stuff that is only available in the autumn & sold as "cider" is really only apple JUICE... "Cider" is what it becomes after we, or professionals, FERMENT it. Samuel Smith's Organic cider is cider. Farnum Hill Cider is cider. Ziegler's, Tree Top, Langer's, Albertson's, Safeway, White House, Western Family, etc, ad nauseum... are all just JUICE, regardlees of whether their labels say "cider" or not. If it contains no alcohol, it is NOT "cider." And some that DO contain alcohol are not worthy of the term "cider," but that's another post. Only in America do we make such things so damned complicated. FYI: I'm American, born & bred, so I'm exercising my 1st ammendment rights here. Anybody want to disagree, you have the right to do so. Since this little "rant" had everything to do with cider & juice, I posted here; if it should've been posted under "rants" I hope one of the moderators will move this to the "Rants" section & let me know so I don't make the same mistake (IF it is one) again. Thank you for allowing me to bend your ear(s). Regards, GF. "In vino, veritas."

joe6pack · 10-20-2008, 10:53 PM

What about apple cider vinegar? Where does that fit in? hahahah

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Seriously though, thanks for the clarification. Maybe a more appropriate term for the (non-alcoholic) cider would be homestyle apple juice... like they call the orange juice with the pulp.

Germey · 10-20-2008, 11:00 PM

Sooo,
Do you have some historical or educational perspective that makes your opinion in this uniquely qualified?

Did you do as much research as Cecil Adams?

Edcculus · 10-20-2008, 11:01 PM

I think with the different terms used in the US, the fermented stuff has taken on the name "hard cider" for most commercial fermented apple based beverages.

I'm not trying to be a douche, but could you use paragraphs? Its mighty hard to read one huge post.

gratus fermentatio · 10-20-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Germey

Sooo,
Do you have some historical or educational perspective that makes your opinion in this uniquely qualified?

Did you do as much research as Cecil Adams?

Nope, I'm just a guy with the ability to think & speak, and the audacity to do so. BTW, great link! <LOL> Regards, GF.

gratus fermentatio · 10-20-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edcculus

I think with the different terms used in the US, the fermented stuff has taken on the name "hard cider" for most commercial fermented apple based beverages.

I'm not trying to be a douche, but could you use paragraphs? Its mighty hard to read one huge post.

Point taken. I shall endevour to use paragraphs in the future. Regards, GF.

**Laughing_Gnome_Invisible** · 10-20-2008, 11:13 PM

Gratus, you are my hero for the day. Coming from the UK, I have always found it befuddling. "Hard cider"? What the heck!? If it's fermented apple juice, then it's bloody cider! If it is unfermented it is apple juice! How difficult is that to understand! If the marketers want to call it cider, then how about calling it non-alcoholic cider? or even simpler...Apple juice!

oops! I got my boxers in a knot.

gratus fermentatio · 10-20-2008, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laughing_Gnome

Gratus, you are my hero for the day. Coming from the UK, I have always found it befuddling. "Hard cider"? What the heck!? If it's fermented apple juice, then it's bloody cider! If it is unfermented it is apple juice! How difficult is that to understand! If the marketers want to call it cider, then how about calling it non-alcoholic cider? or even simpler...Apple juice!

oops! I got my boxers in a knot.

Laughing Gnome: THANK YOU! You've managed to put it even more succinctly than I did. Ordinarily I'd say "Your honor, I rest my case" at this point, but I've a feeling that there will be more opinions/comments on this. <LOL> But thank you for a lifeline of common sense. Regards, GF.

Ya, I seem to have got my knickers in a twist too. <LOL>

lapaglia · 10-21-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Germey

Sooo,
Do you have some historical or educational perspective that makes your opinion in this uniquely qualified?

Did you do as much research as Cecil Adams?

He didn't do a lot of research, he made a few phone calls and got an email. I did that much and got the same story. Then I made 2 more calls and wrote a real paper letter. So I did more research that Cecil. So by this concept I am the better expert.

Cider is "the pressing of apples early in the harvest to get the juice from the apple".
Apple Juice is "the rest of the apples to get the juice from the apple".
So THEY ARE BOTH JUICE!!!!!

I rest my case. From this point, at request of the OP, it shall all be Apple Juice. When you go to the store and see it labeled cider you can smile at their error.

petes · 10-21-2008, 05:00 AM

Thanks gf for clearing that up. We k1w1s follow the English terms, so I have to constantly read and re-read forum posts to savvy what is meant.