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Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > Apfelwein yeast cake.
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Old 12-20-2009, 12:09 AM   #1
KhellendrosXS
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Default Apfelwein yeast cake.

I want to re-use my apfelwein yeast cake. The current batch has been going for almost a month and at this point has almost cleared up but I figure Ill leave the juice on the cake until after new years.

Now, Im wanting to make some hard cider on top of my old montrachet yeast. First, can I pull the stopper and airlock and add my apple cider and sugar (through sanitized funnel)? Secondly, will the yeasties still be viable after sitting in the primary for over a month or should I just clean it out and start over?

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Old 12-20-2009, 09:08 AM   #2
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If you rack off of the cake then make a batch of cider you should be OK.

If you already racked and are waiting until after NY day to make the cider then the temp of the yeast will rise and will start smelling like nail polish remover in a few days...not good.

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Old 12-21-2009, 03:03 PM   #3
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Yes, it would start again, but I wouldn't do it. I'm on an email group where most of the cider makers are British. Saving the lees came up once, and one member said, "If I understand you well you want to use a yeast culture from an ended fermentation to start up a new one. Don't. Use a new culture. They are clean, available and cheap." I can't tell much more than that. I do know that someone else told me that they have never lost a batch racking too early, but they have lost a batch racking too late. So reusing lees might change the flavor. I'm aware I'm not making a strong case not to do it.

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Old 12-22-2009, 01:09 AM   #4
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Dry yeast is so cheap, I always wonder why people want to try to reuse it.

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Old 12-22-2009, 01:50 AM   #5
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Okay, I have a slightly better response this time, and I'm quoting a Flemish cider maker, hence the spellings. "Don't. This is not clean yeast. It should be sieved and washed in a mild disinfectant. And it is not fresh. Autolysis will have set in,can give off- flavours."

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Old 12-22-2009, 01:26 PM   #6
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Thanks for the advice everyone.

I looked in the fridge and I have another packet of the yeast.

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Old 12-22-2009, 02:46 PM   #7
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I asked the Cider Workshop, and they finally gave me this answer:

One is the risk of infection from non-yeast organisms, bacteria etc,
which may have multiplied with the yeast and carried over. In breweries,
where re-use is common, yeast is often acid-washed to mitigate this. Two
is that in a wild yeast fermentation, which is a succession, you will be
starting from the climax part of the succession i.e. the Saccharomyces
not the Kloeckera. So you won't duplicate the original fermentation.
Three is that the yeast at the end of fermentation has weak cell walls
due to lack of oxygen and hence needs a period of oxidative (not
fermentative) growth to renew its ability to ferment and not to stick.
Four is that the hexose transporters will be of the wrong type by the
end of the fermentation and adapted for the situation where sugar levels
are low rather than the high concentration you are suddenly about to
pitch them into. So you may need time for new cells to grow which are
adapted for the new environment.

It is often done, but if your second fermentation is sluggish or even
tainted then those are some of the possible reasons why.

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Old 11-30-2012, 06:21 AM   #8
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Bumping this since it was brought up recently. Anyone have any experience and results with this?

Edit. Wish this was in the wine forum.

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Old 11-30-2012, 06:28 AM   #9
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Never had a problem, wash the yeast as in stickies in the beer section and reuse.

Its more or less brew lore, most of it can be discounted by simple experementation

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