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-   -   Any Problem If I use NO sulphite, NO yeast and NO chemicals with fresh juice? (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/any-problem-if-i-use-no-sulphite-no-yeast-no-chemicals-fresh-juice-354898/)

UncaMarc 09-17-2012 03:03 PM

Any Problem If I use NO sulphite, NO yeast and NO chemicals with fresh juice?
 
I started my cider last night with 6 gallons of fresh squeezed apple juice. I added no sulphites, no yeast and plan to use no chemicals.

Will it do alright? Do you see any problems?

The SG was 1.060, the temp was 72 and the pH was 3.2.

I have it in a sanitized plastic brewers bucket with a lid and water lock installed. It will be kept at room temperature.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. It was a lot of work to squeeze all that juice and I'd like to avoid any problems.

JonM 09-17-2012 03:06 PM

Are you looking for wild yeast to ferment it?

UncaMarc 09-17-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonM (Post 4419410)
Are you looking for wild yeast to ferment it?

yes

CvilleKevin 09-17-2012 04:57 PM

If you are using wild yeast, you want to keep it a lot colder - like 55-60. At room temp, most wild yeasts will take a while to get going, and then not stop until they have stripped out most of the flavor.

irchowi 09-18-2012 12:16 AM

With fresh apples, I just imagine them growing outside, exposed to bugs/dirt/yeast/bacteria and pretty much any nasties that you can find outside. Even if you wash them you can't get them all out. So if you just let it sit there, how do you know that it will be a proper wild yeast that takes hold and not some mold or bacteria or a combination of any of them?

I mean if you let fruits sit on a counter top they eventually start rotting with mold and nasties right?

dinnerstick 09-18-2012 07:03 AM

that's how all cider was made in the past, although even as far back as the 17th century english cidermakers used tricks to sulfite the cider, such as burning sulfur wicks in the vat before adding the juice, and it's how a lot of cider is still made today, but personally unless i wanted a malolactic fermentation i would start with a bit of sulfite, it protects you in the long run (bacteria, oxidation) and it won't be present or noticeable in the final cider. i know it's a 'chemical', but juice is full of chemicals. what you end up with in the juice from k-metabisulfite is potassium ions, and sulfur dioxide (depending on pH) most of the so2 that doesn't react will off-gas. those go well with the chemicals already present such as rhamnogalacturonan and deoxyribonucleicacid!! but the idea that cider can only be made in a sterile environment (a myth perpetuated by brewers!) is bollocks. fruit on the countertop gets moldy, but pressed juice tends to ferment pretty well on its own. i have fermented many batches wild, some with sulfite and some with nothing added, and they have all fermented healthily, and i always get tasty cider in the end. i agree with cvillekevin, go with a lower temp if possible. my wild ferments at warmer temps have always come out very dry, very sharp white winey. personally i like that (but some people's eyeballs pop out a bit when they taste it) but the few lower temp ones i have done have finished a bit more appley.

UncaMarc 09-18-2012 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinnerstick (Post 4422052)
that's how all cider was made in the past, although even as far back as the 17th century english cidermakers used tricks to sulfite the cider, such as burning sulfur wicks in the vat before adding the juice, and it's how a lot of cider is still made today, but personally unless i wanted a malolactic fermentation i would start with a bit of sulfite, it protects you in the long run (bacteria, oxidation) and it won't be present or noticeable in the final cider. i know it's a 'chemical', but juice is full of chemicals. what you end up with in the juice from k-metabisulfite is potassium ions, and sulfur dioxide (depending on pH) most of the so2 that doesn't react will off-gas. those go well with the chemicals already present such as rhamnogalacturonan and deoxyribonucleicacid!! but the idea that cider can only be made in a sterile environment (a myth perpetuated by brewers!) is bollocks. fruit on the countertop gets moldy, but pressed juice tends to ferment pretty well on its own. i have fermented many batches wild, some with sulfite and some with nothing added, and they have all fermented healthily, and i always get tasty cider in the end. i agree with cvillekevin, go with a lower temp if possible. my wild ferments at warmer temps have always come out very dry, very sharp white winey. personally i like that (but some people's eyeballs pop out a bit when they taste it) but the few lower temp ones i have done have finished a bit more appley.

We picked the apples from the tree, not the ground. We washed them in clear water first. My press and the must container were all cleaned and sanitized first. The only stuff in the juice is what came out during the milling and the pressing, which I'm sure included a few insects. We did trim any bad spots, but not all bug bites to the skin.

These apples were never sprayed with any chemicals.

You made a great point. I considered that years ago the early Americans out on the farm probably didn't have much in the way of cultured yeasts, potassium metabisulphite or other treatments. They probably started out with as clean an environment as they could, maybe sanitized their barrels but the cider had to get going on its own.

Then again, every time I make this point to my wife she responds with, "Yeah, and they all died in their forties". I hate it when she does that.

samschilling 09-18-2012 02:13 PM

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but won't an airlock work counter-productive in this instance, as the point of that is to keep out wild yeasts while allowing off-gassing?

CvilleKevin 09-18-2012 02:22 PM

The wild yeasts that you want are the ones that were on your apples - not whatever is in your kitchen or basement (unless you've been making cider for a looong time)

samschilling 09-18-2012 02:29 PM

Oh, gotcha! Thanks for the quick reply. Still new to brewing and trying to immerse myself.
Can't wait to hear how this "au natural" cider comes out!


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