The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Cider Forum > adding body

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-03-2012, 06:02 PM   #11
GinKings
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bridgewater, NJ
Posts: 589
Liked 12 Times on 12 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by divi2323 View Post
Mainly I think when the local judges drink cider their expectation is something sweet. A couple batches I've bottles sparkling and dry.
Making a cider that you enjoy is more important than pleasing the judges. I think Americans in general tend to prefer sweeter cider. Judges are volunteers and some have more experience than others, but BJCP judges should have the experience to evaluate your cider on it's merits.

Making a good dry cider isn't always easy. Sweeter ciders hide flaws better than dry ciders and it's easier to keep apple flavor if you don't ferment it fully.

Regarding the maltodextrin suggestion, I just bought some last week to try in a cider. If it adds body and is not perceptible otherwise, I would not be afraid to enter it in a comp.
__________________
GinKings is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2012, 06:12 PM   #12
dinnerstick
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: utrecht, netherlands
Posts: 1,904
Liked 212 Times on 161 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GinKings View Post
Making a cider that you enjoy is more important than pleasing the judges. I think Americans in general tend to prefer sweeter cider. Judges are volunteers and some have more experience than others, but BJCP judges should have the experience to evaluate your cider on it's merits.
i don't think so, i have lived years in england and visited cider country in england, france, spain, and i don't think it's dissimilar to the usa; girls and non cider people tend to prefer something a bit sweet, bearded men in black t-shirts like the dry (aka good) stuff! except that there is little sweet cider in spain and mostly semi-sweet/demi-sec in france.
i was wondering about bjcp judges and cider as i read this thread, do they really know about cider and what to look for? i don't mean that sarcastically, just wondering if they have a lot of experience with it. still seems really weird to me to group cider in with beer (even though they are currently side by side on my taps and getting along quite well)
__________________
dinnerstick is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2012, 09:16 PM   #13
GinKings
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bridgewater, NJ
Posts: 589
Liked 12 Times on 12 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinnerstick View Post
i was wondering about bjcp judges and cider as i read this thread, do they really know about cider and what to look for? i don't mean that sarcastically, just wondering if they have a lot of experience with it. still seems really weird to me to group cider in with beer (even though they are currently side by side on my taps and getting along quite well)
Do they have BJCP in the Netherlands?

BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program) covers beer, cider, and mead, but I think it's safe to assume that most of the judges have more experience with beer than cider and mead. I'm not sure if they implemented it yet, but the BJCP is working on a separate mead certification, which should help.

Judging is subjective, so it's not uncommon to get two conflicting scoresheets from the same entry. One might say "too much raspberry" and the other might say "not enough raspberry". It can be quite frustrating. Despite some inconsistencies, the judges I've seen take it seriously and try to do their best. Judges have worked in pairs in the comps I've been involved with. I believe they usually try to pair an experienced judge with a less experienced judge and it's common for the judges to discuss each entry. This should lessen inconsistencies and help improve the less experienced judge. Also, I believe the coordinators try to place judges in categories that they are familiar with.

I can't speak for other parts of the US or the world, but there are quite a few BJCP judges in my area and many of them are familiar with cider and mead (many are cider and mead makers themselves). Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that they will be the ones assigned to judge the cider and mead categories.

BTW - Their website has a lot of great info even if you don't compete. www.bjcp.org
__________________
GinKings is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-03-2012, 09:35 PM   #14
dinnerstick
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: utrecht, netherlands
Posts: 1,904
Liked 212 Times on 161 Posts
Likes Given: 21

Default

nothing like bjcp here as far as i know. i know quite a bit about bjcp from hbt, podcasts, books, etc. there is a homebrew community here, and one homebrew competition that i know of, but nothing like as enthusiastic as in north america. the dutch are far from enthusiastic about homemade/foraged/mad scientist stuff in general. home brewing seems to be growing though, branching out and getting a bit experimental, but cider making (in an apple rich land!) is still close to zero. off topic as it is, i am trying to change that one drinker at a time...

__________________
dinnerstick is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-04-2012, 11:28 AM   #15
LeBreton
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Finger Lakes, NY
Posts: 1,100
Liked 93 Times on 81 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Here is my take on a full bodied cider. Sweet apples make the front end and tart apples create the back end. These are the easiest to find in the states as well as the easiest to cover up with additions (sugars and acid) if you don't have access to the right apples. Using apples is better then using corrective additions and will create a more complex cider.

Body is much harder to achieve. While tannin does help fill out the body of cider I think it adds more mouthfeel than anything else. Some people say that a controlled amount of MLF helps in body but I have not yet tasted a good example of this and expect to do some research exploring it over the next few months. Personally, I fill out body by blending in what I call 'base' apples. These are low sugar and low acid and typically are harder to find since most don't stand out alone and don't sell well commercially. Gotta go the the source to find these varieties.

__________________
Bellwether Hard Cider
In all the states no door stands wider,
To ask you in to drink hard cider
LeBreton is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools