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Old 02-25-2013, 08:09 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbathurst View Post
See this is our point of difference. You think you know what is going on in the cider when you pitch brett (without any evidence except assertions you make). I think that the percentage of brett in the fermenting cider could be anything from zero to 100, probably closer to zero (but I don't know that). I don't say what will happen except I doubt that brett will have a strong part of the fermentation, because no-one has ever documented this as far as I am aware. (and experiments with sterile beer wort don't count). So I will leave you to your "experiment".
Pretty sure Crispin has done an all Brett Cider. They seem to know a thing or 2 about cider.
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Old 02-25-2013, 09:59 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marquez

Nice active ferment!

You should have no problem removing the airlock and replacing with foil.

When the activity slows, replace the airlock.

As long as there is positive pressure, you'll won't have any problems with contamination.

But be sure to get the airlock back on when the furious activity slows.
Cool. 100 % Brett (pitched in primary) does work after all. Also thanks for responding.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:03 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Embracethefunk View Post
Pretty sure Crispin has done an all Brett Cider. They seem to know a thing or 2 about cider.
Doesn't invalidate what greg is saying though, just because Crispin pitched 100% Brett doesn't mean that's what was doing the brunt of the fermentation.

According to Scott labs, yeasts are very competitive, and even a slight dominant advantage of one strain over another can tip the scales and result in 100% of the more vigorous strain after 48 hrs. Brett is well known to be a comparatively weak strain, which often goes to work as a spoiler after primary fermentation is complete and no other yeasts are active.

LF, do you have access to a good microscope so you can track the populations throughout the fermentation and see what is dominant at different stages? That would settle this definitively.

Regardless of whether the fermenations are 100% Brett or not, they will certainly be unique!
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Old 02-26-2013, 10:00 AM   #44
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I don't have a microscope. I still would argue that wild (untrained) yeast at such a low count will not out-compete a pitched culture of commercial Brett.

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Old 02-27-2013, 01:45 PM   #45
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Brett goo. Pretty cool. It's like the stuff.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:46 AM   #46
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I'd suggest doing at least one variation with oenococcus in place of the LAB. I've had very pleasant results from Wyeast 3068 and oenococcus fermented cider, and a shorter time frame than you would expect with pedio involved.
Curious to hear how these turn out, as I love brett beers and basque ciders.

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Old 03-02-2013, 01:32 PM   #47
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Look what I found. Another person having great sucess with Brett.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/used-brett-cider-tastes-fantastic-216606/
This is from way back 2011, and guess who commented. Thanks Calder!


gregbathurst is polite in all other posts I have read.

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Old 03-03-2013, 01:15 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbybob

gregbathurst is polite in all other posts I have read.
Remember guys, we are all just people and sometimes we have good days and sometimes we have bad days and sometimes we just have differences of opinion or things that get under our skin.
I am the first one to admit that I can be a hothead or sometimes misunderstand, And I'm sure there are a few others like me out there, But I'm sure if we sat down together and all had a beer we would be great friends. My girlfriend has been wonderful in my life because she's been teaching me patience and understanding more than I ever could have on my own.

She also says to me "you don't have enough information to judge", Maybe someone just lost a pet or loved one or friend, Had a really bad day at work or a problem with the spouse...

Just keep that in mind and try not to be too hard on each other.

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Old 03-03-2013, 02:01 PM   #49
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I'm no scientist by any means. But wouldn't a control batch from the same pressings illustrate the progress of the brett in a side by side comparison?

So one with natural yeasts from the skins and one with brett. I would think you might get better data from the brett batch if you have a comparison of a wild strain in the other.

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Old 03-03-2013, 07:42 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by levifunk View Post
I'm thinking about doing a panel of 100% brett fermented ciders. A few single strains, a few multiple strains, and a few of both with lacto/pedio added.

Here is the list of fermentations I came up with:
1.) 100% Brett B
2.) 100% Brett C
3.) 100% Brett L
4.) 100% Brett Drie
5.) Brett B,C,L
6.) 100% Brett B & LAB
7.) 100% Brett C & LAB
8.) 100% Brett L & LAB
9.) 100% Brett Drie & LAB
10.)Brett B,C,L & LAB

("LAB" is Lactic Acid Bacteria, which is the lacto/pedio)
Good luck. Be sure to post you results comparing the flavors produced by the different yeasts. Not sure you really need to do the Lactic Acid Bacteria. The Brett will have used up all the sugars, leaving very little for them. Cider is already acidic.

I've done a number of all-brett ciders. Brett and Belgian yeasts are my favorites for fermenting ciders. I think these yeasts provide more flavor to the cider than regular yeasts.

Using just Brett, will not give you the characteristic rustic brett flavors, but will provide a more fruity flavor.

When used as the primary yeast, Brett works similar to Sacc, and will be done in about the same time (a couple of weeks). I prefer to leave my ciders at least 6 months before bottling.

Your Brett B cider that was slow to start. You either pitched low and it took a while to buil;d up its population (Brett really needs a decent sized pitch), or it was too cold. Brett prefers to ferment warm; fermenting in the 80s is not a problem. I'm not sure what the lower temp limit is for the yeast.
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