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Old 02-19-2013, 04:07 PM   #31
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Also thanks for making me do that. I just assumed I couldn't cuz I don't pay for my membership. Guess unread the forum rules wrong. Ha! Anyhoo, there ya go.

On a side note, my lady bought me a bottle of 2010 vintage prima brut cidre. Drank it last night and I was floored. These guys are making killer dry champaignoise ciders right in the suburbs of Chicago.

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Old 02-23-2013, 07:12 AM   #32
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Ok. So this keeps happening. Any thoughts?
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Old 02-23-2013, 08:09 AM   #33
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Where is all the research to backup all your statements? You seem to know very little about Brettanomyces yet you have a firm belief that what you are saying is true. Wyeast and White Labs package it for secondary fermentation simply because they contain significantly less cells than their Saccharomyces packages. Anything can be a primary fermenter in large enough population.

Define a weak fermenter. Is a highly attenuative yeast considered weak? Brett is known for attenuating much more than sacch, granted it may take a little longer.

As far as the low pH of Cider, Brett actually attenuates more, and in a shorter period of time in a lower pH environment.

I would consider data from a dissertation to be more accurate than a dude named greg in a cider forum, not a beer forum.

If anything, I would think Brett would ferment cider much easier as it contains simple sugars. Maltose is a complex sugar, so it would make sense that Brett would take more time to ferment it, and less time to ferment Cider.
First I agree completely that I don't know a lot about brett, that is the whole point. I have some training in wine science but I have no idea what happens pitching brett into cider, the original poster knows even less. I do know that wild yeast will get into every cider unless produced under sterile lab conditions, and I suspect wild yeast will do the fermentation in this case.
"Where is all the research to backup all your statements? " Why do I need research to back up my assertion that there is no research to back up using brett in cider or wine?
"Anything can be a primary fermenter in large enough population." That is meaningless if you have no idea what the population is.
"I would consider data from a dissertation to be more accurate than a dude named greg in a cider forum, not a beer forum." Yes, always go for the insults when you are trying to score points.
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Old 02-23-2013, 04:30 PM   #34
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First I agree completely that I don't know a lot about brett, that is the whole point. I have some training in wine science but I have no idea what happens pitching brett into cider, the original poster knows even less.
I have read up quite extensively concerning brett in beer. I have 28 barrels of lambic fermenting/aging for commercial production. I have 2 barrels of cider fermenting; one naturally, one with a wild saison yeast blend. I have a keeved cider fermenting with lambic yeast.

When it comes to theorizing brett's activity in cider, I might have a better grasp on thing than you.

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"Where is all the research to backup all your statements? " Why do I need research to back up my assertion that there is no research to back up using brett in cider or wine?
Because there is plenty of research and experience regarding the nature of brett in beer and you are making statements that contradict the known characteristics of brett. If you are to contradict these things, you better at least have personal experience or research to back it up.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:25 AM   #35
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When it comes to theorizing brett's activity in cider, I might have a better grasp on thing than you.
Your statement that you will have a 100% brett ferment shows you have no understanding of microbiology at all. Unless you are using a sterile lab you never have 100% of any yeast or bacteria, there is ALWAYS a mixed population. Pretty much every wine ever made has a small brett population, not usually enough to cause problems. I have a degree in viticulture and worked for 6 years in a winery, I have helped ferment thousands of litres of wine and do about 500 litres of cider from my own fruit every year for the last 5 years, so I have reasonable experience.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:57 AM   #36
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Well, outside of your lab, and in the real world, "100% brett fermentation" means all the yeast that was pitched, is brett. Which, should you be such a steward of microbiology, you would understand that that would be the source of 99.9% of all fermentation.

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Old 02-24-2013, 03:03 AM   #37
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Well, outside of your lab, and in the real world, "100% brett fermentation" means all the yeast that was pitched, is brett. Which, should you be such a steward of microbiology, you would understand that that would be the source of 99.9% of all fermentation.
This. To dogmatically insist that someone doesn't know what they're doing because they stated 100% Brett, is being needlessly obstinate. 100% is a commonly accepted phrase. Can we say that our diet today was 100% free of fecal matter? Probably not, unless we live in a hepafiltered bubble.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:41 AM   #38
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Well, outside of your lab, and in the real world, "100% brett fermentation" means all the yeast that was pitched, is brett. Which, should you be such a steward of microbiology, you would understand that that would be the source of 99.9% of all fermentation.
See this is our point of difference. You think you know what is going on in the cider when you pitch brett (without any evidence except assertions you make). I think that the percentage of brett in the fermenting cider could be anything from zero to 100, probably closer to zero (but I don't know that). I don't say what will happen except I doubt that brett will have a strong part of the fermentation, because no-one has ever documented this as far as I am aware. (and experiments with sterile beer wort don't count). So I will leave you to your "experiment".
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:12 PM   #39
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Attachment 103259

Ok. So this keeps happening. Any thoughts?
Nice active ferment!

You should have no problem removing the airlock and replacing with foil.

When the activity slows, replace the airlock.

As long as there is positive pressure, you'll won't have any problems with contamination.

But be sure to get the airlock back on when the furious activity slows.
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Old 02-25-2013, 07:50 PM   #40
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Cool. I actually replaced the airlock with a tube and mason jar if water system and everything is ok. It's a little farty, but bloop bloop blooping away nicely. I moved it to a place that I closer to 63 degrees and its going strong. It's been fermenting for a week now without slowing down.

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