Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Mead Forum > Temperatures for best yeast performance
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-20-2010, 11:28 PM   #1
MarsColonist
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Music Capital of the World, Texas
Posts: 391
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default Temperatures for best yeast performance

So when I first started making mead, I got Ken Schramm's book and listened to the Jamil show on meads. I really didnt notice a lot of attention paid to the yeast fermenation temperatures... nothing NEAR the attention paid to yeast fermentation temperatures in recipes as I see in beer.... so, I followed the directions and fermented willy-nilly at my "room" temperatures.. 73-76°F.... which is a good fermentation temperature if you like honey flavored jet-fuel.

Another problem is that some yeast are described as having HUGE "ranges" of 45-90°F (which,to me, speaks to the survival range, not best practices), but datasheets show way the more restrained best practices: Pitch 54°; ferment 57°F - 64°F.

So.. my question... if I have temperature control, what ideal temps (ie, between restrained fusels and putting the yeast to sleep/crashing, hopefully with a nice ester/phenolic profile) would I be using for: D-47, 71B-1122, Premier Red, Premier Cuvee, Cote de Blanc, etc. All the same range? Until further notice, Im sticking to 57-66°F for everything. No more 70's (.. and h*ll no to 80's and 90's!!!)

Is there a description somewhere that tells me the effects of temperature on flavor profile, (like Bavarian hefe yeast can be pushed toward more clove/less clove, more banana/less banana depending on ferm temps), but with wine/champagne yeasts? I found THIS, but its doesnt tell me what Im looking for... Are wine yeasts that much different than beer yeasts in that those elements are much less predictable in the long run due to other process variables?

Im just curious why more importance isnt stressed about temperature control for mead? Maybe its that people in the north take for granted that they have basements with mid-50s/60s year round (rare is the basement in central Texas)....

__________________

Cheers!
-------------------------------

"Luck is when opportunity meets preparation" - Seneca


Austin Zealots

MarsColonist is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-21-2010, 02:00 AM   #2
MedsenFey
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,034
Liked 15 Times on 15 Posts

Default

As a general rule, the closer you are to the lower end of the yeast's temperature range, the better you'll be. Certainly keeping things in the 60s F is a good idea. There is some winemaking data that say the maximum ester content is maintained with a temp in the low 60s F - below that and their production is decreased, and above that, even though more are produced, more get scrubbed off by the vigorous CO2 release.

With that said, it is possible to produce good mead at high temps. I had one fermented at 84 F that took a 1st place in the dry mead category at the Mazer Cup last year. Yeast choice and recipe selection become critical.

I'm not sure why you haven't seen enough concern over fermentation temperature. Perhaps you haven't seen the threads where it is addressed - I know I'm constantly asking about it, and over on GotMead, it is a regular theme. For those of us living in the sunbelt, it is the single most important issue to deal with in making good meads.

Medsen

__________________
MedsenFey is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-21-2010, 02:28 AM   #3
MarsColonist
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Music Capital of the World, Texas
Posts: 391
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedsenFey View Post
There is some winemaking data that say the maximum ester content is maintained with a temp in the low 60s F - below that and their production is decreased, and above that, even though more are produced, more get scrubbed off by the vigorous CO2 release.
I like data. The above is consistent with my knowledge of brewers yeast that Ive gained over the last few years, although it seems like in beer the higher temp esters dont get scrubbed off as well.. been there

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedsenFey View Post
With that said, it is possible to produce good mead at high temps. I had one fermented at 84 F that took a 1st place in the dry mead category at the Mazer Cup last year. Yeast choice and recipe selection become critical.
Weren't the high alcohols HUGE in this, at least initially, or was it knowledgeable yeast selection? Thats usually the first thing I think of with higher temp fermentation of brewers yeast... that, and wicked ester production. How old was this dry mead at this comp (2009)? You say recipe selection... as in, honey+fruit/herb/etc selection, or more about the SNA/O2/acid/tannin balances?
__________________

Cheers!
-------------------------------

"Luck is when opportunity meets preparation" - Seneca


Austin Zealots

MarsColonist is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-21-2010, 02:50 AM   #4
MedsenFey
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,034
Liked 15 Times on 15 Posts

Default

The meads were 1 year old at the time of the competition. They did go through a very awkward, fusel, Band-Aid phase. The complete details of the recipe and process are located on GotMead in the Patron's area in a thread entitled "HotMead Yeast Test."

For a traditional meads I think yeast choice is the most important factor for fermenting in high-temperature settings.

For other meads there may be a variety of factors. Dark Berry melomels for example may be done at high temp and may turn out well just as red wines may be fermented in the upper 70s or low 80s and still turn out great. However, often such wines are started cooler and the temp is allowed to rise during the fermentation. Higher temps at the end of fermentation don't cause the same fusel issue as they do early in the process when the yeast are rapidly dividing. With metheglyns, there may be recipes that work well at high temp - if you know any, please post them up.

Medsen

__________________
MedsenFey is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-21-2010, 03:17 AM   #5
MarsColonist
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Music Capital of the World, Texas
Posts: 391
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedsenFey View Post
... may be fermented in the upper 70s or low 80s and still turn out great. However, often such wines are started cooler and the temp is allowed to rise during the fermentation. Higher temps at the end of fermentation don't cause the same fusel issue as they do early in the process when the yeast are rapidly dividing.
Fair enough. This makes sense. This is how I do my saisons and belgian strong ales, where both have a fair amount of work to do in the 80's, maybe low 90's. I typically pitch these liquid yeast starters at 66°F and allow the free rise, possibly warming. The fusels are definitely restrained. Its actually what I tried recently.

I did my first power weekend of mazing a few weeks ago and finished it off with a Belgian Strong Dark. I started the meads off at 65°F (a couple on Fri night, a couple on Saturday) and kept them there for a couple of days. The BSD was Sunday, and it started at 66, but as soon as the wort was 66, I pitched and slowly ramped up the temp limit on the controller in the freezer. After a week, everything had climbed to 73°F; the BSD got pulled and wrapped to get to 79, everything else stayed and was dropped to 68. All the mead was done in 8 days (super dry or alcohol tolerance). Fusels pretty restrained (comparatively to the jetfuel I produced last year); weird esters (like bucket plastic, not bandaid plastic).
__________________

Cheers!
-------------------------------

"Luck is when opportunity meets preparation" - Seneca


Austin Zealots

MarsColonist is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-21-2010, 04:42 AM   #6
AugustDerleth
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Capetown
Posts: 276
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsColonist View Post

Im just curious why more importance isnt stressed about temperature control for mead? Maybe its that people in the north take for granted that they have basements with mid-50s/60s year round (rare is the basement in central Texas)....
Heh, yeah I got quite lucky down here! House came with a bombshelter built at least 20 feet below the house. During the "winter", it can be pretty chill down there. Perfect for mead! Also, Austin is great!
__________________
AugustDerleth is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-21-2010, 05:06 AM   #7
MarsColonist
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Music Capital of the World, Texas
Posts: 391
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AugustDerleth View Post
Heh, yeah I got quite lucky down here! House came with a bombshelter built at least 20 feet below the house. During the "winter", it can be pretty chill down there. Perfect for mead! Also, Austin is great!
You indeed got lucky; I grew up in Houston and south Texas and never had a house with a basement, nor did I know anyone with one Now I have refrigerators to make up for my sadness
__________________

Cheers!
-------------------------------

"Luck is when opportunity meets preparation" - Seneca


Austin Zealots

MarsColonist is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-22-2010, 12:01 AM   #8
MeadWitch
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South of Weird, TX
Posts: 311
Liked 4 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarsColonist View Post
You indeed got lucky; I grew up in Houston and south Texas and never had a house with a basement, nor did I know anyone with one Now I have refrigerators to make up for my sadness
It is true making mead in central Texas has it challenges from fire ants to weird smells coming out of your carboy. Nothing pisses you off like having fire ants eat your corks right out of the bottles and ruin all your hard work. Ask me how I know? However, I have a under counter cabinet that I age my mead in year round. It never gets about 72 degrees in the summer but drops dramatically in the winter. Part of the fun of making mead is the challegnes, going from a few choice ingredients to something wonderfully smooth and flavorful, not mention a definite buzz!
__________________
Primary: Cider House Rules Cider

Tertiary: Sweet Dried Cherry/Vanilla Mead, Prickly Pear Mead, Jalapeno-Peach Sweet Mead

Bottled: Huajillo Honey Mead - 4 bottles only, first ever mead, Light Draft Style Cider, Raspberry Mead, Hibiscus Mead, JAOM, Peach Melba Mead, Limoncello, Kahlua, Spiced Winter Cider, Orange/Vanilla Mead
MeadWitch is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-22-2010, 09:13 PM   #9
2ndGenBrewer
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Denver
Posts: 159
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

My two cents on this is my recent experience with 71B-1122. I've had issue living in a 3rd story apartment here in Denver. I was lucky if I could keep the temps in the mid 70's throughout the day. 71B-1122 has consistently produced fantasitic meads for me. I've made mostly Melomels with it using dates, strawberries, carmelized honey, rosehips, etc. and after bulk aging a few months in the carboys they have a very low alcohol profile. To anyone who doesn't have a very strick temp. control I'd recommend it.

__________________
2ndGenBrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 09-22-2010, 11:58 PM   #10
AugustDerleth
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Capetown
Posts: 276
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndGenBrewer View Post
My two cents on this is my recent experience with 71B-1122. I've had issue living in a 3rd story apartment here in Denver. I was lucky if I could keep the temps in the mid 70's throughout the day. 71B-1122 has consistently produced fantasitic meads for me. I've made mostly Melomels with it using dates, strawberries, carmelized honey, rosehips, etc. and after bulk aging a few months in the carboys they have a very low alcohol profile. To anyone who doesn't have a very strick temp. control I'd recommend it.
Thanks a lot! I'ma look into that when i make an upcoming blueberry mead, cause D-47 can cause some pretty gross flavours down here where I'm lucky if it's less than 100 degrees outside everyday. Was stuck using swamp coolers but I finally got a chest freezer so, yay.
__________________
AugustDerleth is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Other sources for Yeast Energizer and Yeast Nutrient BigStone777 Mead Forum 19 08-16-2014 02:57 PM
Yeast nutrient and yeast energizer Q's Mumford Mead Forum 5 02-26-2010 05:14 PM
yeast energizer versus yeast nutrient VermontFreedom Mead Forum 2 08-19-2006 04:17 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS