Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Winners Re-Re-Re-Re-Drawn - 24 hours to Claim!

Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Mead Forum > stabilize, ppm?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-20-2013, 07:38 PM   #1
BWRIGHT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Anderson, IN
Posts: 354
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default stabilize, ppm?

For a 5 gallon batch it seems fairly common to add 1 campden tab per gallon and 1.5 tsp potassium sorbate per gallon. The problem I've got is that may campden tablets are apparently much stronger than what most people use. I don't have them in front of me but I believe it says to use 1/3 of a tab in place of one whole tab (which is ridiculous). Just to be sure, does anyone know what the ppm of k meta is supposed to be for 5 gallons?

__________________
BWRIGHT is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-20-2013, 08:57 PM   #2
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 62,867
Liked 4942 Times on 3579 Posts
Likes Given: 995

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWRIGHT View Post
For a 5 gallon batch it seems fairly common to add 1 campden tab per gallon and 1.5 tsp potassium sorbate per gallon. The problem I've got is that may campden tablets are apparently much stronger than what most people use. I don't have them in front of me but I believe it says to use 1/3 of a tab in place of one whole tab (which is ridiculous). Just to be sure, does anyone know what the ppm of k meta is supposed to be for 5 gallons?
You want to have mead/wine/cider's free sulfite (S02) level to be at about 50 ppm for a preservative affect. Since sorbate works better in the presence of sulfite, that's added at the same time as the sorbate.

My "dosage" of sorbate is much less than yours, though! My "dose" is 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. I don't use it all that much (and I don't sweeten most wines and meads) but I'm careful to not overdose when I do use it as it does have a distinctive taste that I don't care for, and it tastes stronger of sorbate with age so I never use it on wines that I'm planning on aging.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006

Find me on facebook: Lorena Evans
But I'm pretty boring so don't expect much!
https://www.facebook.com/lorena.t.evans
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-20-2013, 09:40 PM   #3
BWRIGHT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Anderson, IN
Posts: 354
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Yeah, I meant 1.5 tsp per 5 gallons of sorbate. Backsweetening without pasteurizing is new to me. I thought I read not to exceed 1.5 tsp per 5 gallons. Looks like you're at 2.5 per 5 gallons? I'd prefer not to use chemicals at all becasue of the taste. I'm afraid of pastuerizing this for fear of driving off the already delicate strawberry flavor/aroma. I can definitely taste the chemicals in most commercial ciders and that is exactly what I'm trying to avoid. I've got to sweeten this though. It's like .996, way too dry in my opinion.

__________________
BWRIGHT is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-22-2013, 07:42 PM   #4
fatbloke
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK - South Coast.
Posts: 2,682
Liked 174 Times on 161 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

IMO pasturising meads or any alcoholic brews is pure stupidity and paranoia.

Once above about 10% ABV the alcohol is the preservative.

The sulphites (Na meta) provide about 50ppm per gallon that I use, so 1 per gallon but crushed.

The sorbate I use is dosed at 0.5 tsp per gallon.

__________________

"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away". Tom Waits.

Oh, and here's some blog stuff!

fatbloke is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-23-2013, 08:23 PM   #5
BWRIGHT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Anderson, IN
Posts: 354
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Pure stupidity? You'll have to explain that one. I have many reasons to pasteurize, and I can assure you that stupidity is not one of them. I can taste sorbates/sulphites in most commercial wines/ciders. It is not a pleasant taste. That is the main reason I choose to pasteurize. Also, if you want to bacskweeten AND carbonate (without a kegging setup), pasteurization would be necessary. Pastuerization would almost certainly extend the shelf life vs. not doing it and not adding chemicals. I'm trying to figure out the proper levels of sorbate and k meta on this mead because I've read and can now taste that the strawberry aroma/flavor is delicate. Even, despite the fact that I used 23 lbs of berries. I've seen where many people have had mead corks pop that well over 10% as well. I'd like to avoid that since I'll have $90 and 6 months of waiting invested.

__________________
BWRIGHT is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-23-2013, 09:04 PM   #6
MarshmallowBlue
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,085
Liked 97 Times on 86 Posts
Likes Given: 56

Default

If you can taste them, than why are you adding them to your own meads? Fatbloke never said that it will stop fermenting at 10%, those people probably bottle too early. Or didn't back sweeten properly, or both. Im curious as to how pasteurization would extend the shelf life over not adding either. Pasteurization does not stop oxidation, the likely only spoilage mechanism that can survive over 10% ABV yes?

__________________

Lifetime goal: 7,777 gallons --- gallons made 48
My Home Brew Blog
My Home-brewing Pinterest < It's a beautiful thing.

MarshmallowBlue is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-23-2013, 09:26 PM   #7
fatbloke
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK - South Coast.
Posts: 2,682
Liked 174 Times on 161 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BWRIGHT View Post
Pure stupidity? You'll have to explain that one. I have many reasons to pasteurize, and I can assure you that stupidity is not one of them. I can taste sorbates/sulphites in most commercial wines/ciders. It is not a pleasant taste. That is the main reason I choose to pasteurize. Also, if you want to bacskweeten AND carbonate (without a kegging setup), pasteurization would be necessary. Pastuerization would almost certainly extend the shelf life vs. not doing it and not adding chemicals. I'm trying to figure out the proper levels of sorbate and k meta on this mead because I've read and can now taste that the strawberry aroma/flavor is delicate. Even, despite the fact that I used 23 lbs of berries. I've seen where many people have had mead corks pop that well over 10% as well. I'd like to avoid that since I'll have $90 and 6 months of waiting invested.
Yes I fully understand that. Strawberry is a hard flavour to convey in the form that we enjoy from the original fruit. Ergo to get some of the original flavour means secondary addition. Presuming that's what you'd be aiming for.....

Now while you seem to have taken my comment as a personal sleight (that wasn't my intention), I'm happy to explain......

Strawberries aren't just difficult to use and retain flavour, but they're also heat sensitive and the flavour and any colour you managed to retain are likely to be degraded under exposure to heat.

Equally, alcohol is also heat sensitive and would normally escape under heating but presuming that the bottles are filled and sealed, some flavour modification would most likely take place. Hence all that time and money you allude to being possibly wasted.

Also, pateurisation kills off the yeast. The point of having some viable yeast cells, so that any fermentable sugars can produce some CO2 to carbonate the batch in bottles.

If pasteurisation kills the yeast cells, how do you expect to carbonate the batch ? That would require the addition of more yeast, defeating the point of some form of pasteurisation procedure.

So plenty of strawberry flavour, sweetness and carbonation will need kegging kit.

People worry about possible bugs and contaminants, fermentation and about 10+ percent alcohol are usually fine too sort that, rendering pasteurisation unnecessary.

I hope you see why I made that point. I'm sorry if it sounded a little abrasive, but I really feel it would be a bad move to heat your batch.

Sweet and carbonated ? Without kegging, you'd likely be looking to attain the carbonation from a dry (ish) batch that has been artificially sweetened. Either with careful selection of the right artificial sweetener (I've read good things of xylitol, but not tried it myself) or with a non-fermentable, natural sweetener......maybe lactose or something like that ?
__________________

"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away". Tom Waits.

Oh, and here's some blog stuff!

fatbloke is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-24-2013, 12:22 AM   #8
BWRIGHT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Anderson, IN
Posts: 354
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

I'm adding them to this mead (my first) because I don't want to ruin the strawberry flavor by heat pasteurizing it. I had no intention of every pasteurizing this. That's why I'm stabilizing. That being said, I've never done it. I've only pasteurized ciders and the reason for that was because I backsweetened with more apple juice. They were nowhere near 10% alcohol and I don't typically carbonate them. I was just pointing out that pasteurization surely has it's place. I've done side by side comparisons of pasteurized vs non pasteurized cider (same batch) and I noticed no difference. Had to stop the yeast somehow. Now that I've decided not to pasteurize this mead (probably no other ones either) I've got to get the stabilizing chemicals introduced at the proper amount. I believe I can taste them in most commercial samples because they are overdoing it. Further complicating things, the campden tablets I bought are apparently stronger than what most people use. It says "Use 1/3 tablet (50ppm) in place of 1 tablet when instructed in your recipe." I find that quite vague. All I can gather from that is that each tab is 150 ppm. I'm still confused as to how many of these damn things to use for 5 gallons. I'm afraid if I overdue it, I'll be able to taste it. I've read a lot of conflicting info here and elsewhere. Just trying to get this figured out so I can stabilize and backsweeten.

__________________
BWRIGHT is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-24-2013, 03:41 AM   #9
fatbloke
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK - South Coast.
Posts: 2,682
Liked 174 Times on 161 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

Hum? Well if you're using these tabs that're gonna give 150 ppm per gallon then I'd have thought that one and a half (easier to halve accurately) should mean 45 ppm which I'd suggest is fine, or at least close enough.

Then presuming your sorbate is regular strength/concentration it'd likely be the half tsp per gallon.

Pasteurisation is handy to know about, but it's not a process generally used in alcobolic drinks production. The downsides are manifold.

Don't forget, its introduction was with milk and dairy stuff and it was originally to control TB and other bacterial stuff, not fungi/yeast.

Ciders generally are fermented dry. Sweet ones are a modern thing. Yet they will likely pasteurise but not to kill the yeast, but to extend shelf life. Which is why commercially made cider uses forced carbonation and artificial sweetners.

Hence I stand by my comment that such a process is.......

Either way, its your brew so you can do whatever.....

__________________

"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away". Tom Waits.

Oh, and here's some blog stuff!

fatbloke is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-28-2013, 04:27 PM   #10
BWRIGHT
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Anderson, IN
Posts: 354
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Listen, I'm just trying to figure out the proper amount of campden tabs and sorbate to add to 5 gallons of mead while both preventing future yeast activity and keeping it under the taste threshold. If pasteurization is not generally used in alcoholic drink production, why does Pappers' stovetop thread have more than 800 pages? I was simply pointing out the fact that it has it's place here. I never intended on pasteurizing this mead. I don't want to carbonate it either. I'm planning on aging this a while as it is about 17% ABV. I'd prefer that when I crack one in a few months, it doesn't taste like there is $1.19 worth of change at the bottom of it. The campden tabs don't say anything about volume. Just "150 ppm." Also, as far as the sorbate goes, I've seen most people say that 1/2 tsp per gallon is good. But I've seen others say that they would not exceed 1.5 tsp per 5 gallons. I suppose I need to find some campden tabs with the "proper" dosage in them.

__________________
BWRIGHT is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
stabilize mead - how much to use and how to do it? scottvin Mead Forum 4 12-09-2012 11:21 PM
lemonade done... should i still stabilize? zahna Cider Forum 6 10-28-2012 09:32 PM
Do I have to stabilize and fine? kpr121 Wine Making Forum 15 11-05-2011 03:02 AM
The is going to stabilize my efficiency? petep1980 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 7 10-03-2009 09:24 PM
more than one way to stabilize before backsweeten? bkvail Wine Making Forum 3 12-10-2008 05:22 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS