Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Mead Forum > Sour mead
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-08-2012, 06:15 PM   #1
ZaMOnk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Default Sour mead

Hello, i made my first mead. I didn't really follow any recipe, rather made my own. It's not my first batch of alcohol but defiantly my first mead.
recipe:

1.3 kg of honey to 5 l of water (45oz to 1.3 gallon)
0.5 kg of sugar ( 35oz)
half of cup of maple syrup


Its 3 weeks in to fermentation, the bubbling stooped.
It's a very cloudy and viscous. The first taste is sweet, but after i keep moving it around on my tongue there is a sour slitly stinging.

Pleas tell me i didn't just make 5 l of honey vinegar

PS: i am not at home so i cant measure the alcohol level

__________________
ZaMOnk is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-08-2012, 07:33 PM   #2
BargainFittings
Sponsor
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
BargainFittings's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Allen TX
Posts: 1,907
Liked 52 Times on 45 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Could have some residual carbonation. What temperature is it at? If its cloudy I suggest you have nothing to lose to let it finish out a few more weeks. Keep an airlock on it.

Let it drop clear then rack to a secondary.

BargainFittings is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-08-2012, 08:08 PM   #3
fatbloke
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK - South Coast.
Posts: 2,657
Liked 171 Times on 158 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaMOnk View Post
Hello, i made my first mead. I didn't really follow any recipe, rather made my own. It's not my first batch of alcohol but defiantly my first mead.
recipe:

1.3 kg of honey to 5 l of water (45oz to 1.3 gallon)
0.5 kg of sugar ( 35oz)
half of cup of maple syrup


Its 3 weeks in to fermentation, the bubbling stooped.
It's a very cloudy and viscous. The first taste is sweet, but after i keep moving it around on my tongue there is a sour slitly stinging.

Pleas tell me i didn't just make 5 l of honey vinegar

PS: i am not at home so i cant measure the alcohol level
Not anywhere enough info there my friend.

We need more/clearer info, like the exact ingredients, method, hygiene techniques, gravity readings, etc etc.

For example, the yeast type, any nutrients and/or energiser used (what types).

What was the point in adding sugar ? Maple syrup is something like 85% sugar......

Now theres also the point that young meads often taste bloody horrible. Theres little point in presuming that because the ingredients make a sweet pleasant tasting must, that the result will taste good straight away.

So dont presume that it is rubbish after such a short time. One of the most important things mead making needs is patience.

Welcome to the forums and for info, meads made with maple syrup would be termed as acerglyn......
__________________

"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away". Tom Waits.

Oh, and here's some blog stuff!

fatbloke is offline
kingboomer Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-08-2012, 08:37 PM   #4
ZaMOnk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BargainFittings View Post
Could have some residual carbonation. What temperature is it at? If its cloudy I suggest you have nothing to lose to let it finish out a few more weeks. Keep an airlock on it.

Let it drop clear then rack to a secondary.

temperature is around 18*C, dark place


@fatbloke

i don't have my alcohol mete with me so i cant tell you the gravity reading.
readings a listed above:
- honey is from a farm (all natural)
- store sugar has the simplest glucose molecules, and is easiest transformed in to alcohol, thus stopping the fermentation process and giving the alcohol a more honey sweet taste ( more of the honey glucose mol remains intact, thus flavor-full and sweet)
- sterility, i washed the demijohn well, and the un-inoculated mixture was poured boiling hot inside, i let it cool and then added the yest.
- yest i cant really tell you, i got it form someone(not store both) but i did make elderberry wine earlier this year and it turned out very good, also had an attempt at a fruit wine but that didn't turn out so good(had a problem with the air tight seal). So i can confirm that the yest is good.


i took out 2 l thinking it was ready ( no more bubbles), i wanted to let it settle in the fridge for another week. when i tasted it i noticed the taste. I added 2 l o bottled water hoping to change the Ph ( i measured it at a 7,4 when i first started) hoping to make it a more acidic to help the yest. I am not concerned about the adding water part(the demijohn serves as a bio-reactor, so i just diluted the concentration of alcohol allowing the yest convert more glucose), what i am concerned about is the the 10-15 min it was opened, and the fact now that there is oxygen inside, what are the risks of contamination?
__________________
ZaMOnk is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-09-2012, 07:30 AM   #5
fatbloke
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK - South Coast.
Posts: 2,657
Liked 171 Times on 158 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaMOnk View Post
-----snip-----

@fatbloke

i don't have my alcohol mete with me so i cant tell you the gravity reading.
readings a listed above:
- honey is from a farm (all natural)
Ok so not a varietal that's known for strong/weird flavours or smells (like eastern buckwheat or something like that)
Quote:
- store sugar has the simplest glucose molecules, and is easiest transformed in to alcohol, thus stopping the fermentation process and giving the alcohol a more honey sweet taste ( more of the honey glucose mol remains intact, thus flavor-full and sweet)
Erm no. Table sugar a.k.a. sucrose is a mix of glucose and fructose (fractionally different make up depending on whether it's beet sugar or cane sugar - apparently.

As for stopping fermentation ? again, no. The yeast doesn't care where it gets it's sugars from, the only thing that will stop a ferment is either cold crash and chems, or when the yeast hits it's alcohol tolerance and dies off, otherwise there's always potential for a restarting of fermentation if it's got stuck for some reason.
Quote:
- sterility, i washed the demijohn well, and the un-innoculated mixture was poured boiling hot inside, i let it cool and then added the yest.
While this method would reduce the chances of infection, it's not guaranteed. Some sort of sanitiser is usually recommended or considered best practice - hell, I don't pay for the "good stuff" like star san or iodophor, I just make mine up with 5 crushed campden (sulphite) tablets and 1 teaspoon of citric acid in a pint of water, which I keep in a hand spray. I wash and rinse with dish soap and water, but then give anything that will contact the honey must with the sanitiser and let it have 2 or 3 minutes of contact time, then just shake off any excess.

Further, heating or boiling a honey must is completely unnecessary. It's not a beer must so there's nothing to convert. Plus heating honey musts can drive off most/a lot of the aromatics and some of the more subtle flavouring elements of the honey - sure some store bought honey may have been heated enough for filtration and blending, but generally not enough to adversely affect the honey. Older recipes that you might find around the web that say about heating or boiling the must, are often connected to unsanitary water supplies, rather than issues with the honey, which, after all, is natures most anti-bacterial, anti-fungal substance (and the only food product that doesn't need a "use by" or "best before" date).

Even honey that's crystalised can be just mixed with water and left alone and it will re-liquidise over time or with some mixing.

As above, honey doesn't need "pasteurising"....

Quote:
- yest i cant really tell you, i got it form someone(not store both) but i did make elderberry wine earlier this year and it turned out very good, also had an attempt at a fruit wine but that didn't turn out so good(had a problem with the air tight seal). So i can confirm that the yest is good.
Ah, well also that's no guarantee of "good" yeast. Without knowing the type, it's hard to say whether it's one that will give good results with all types of must. Sure it may have been fine for elderberry, not giving any off flavours, but the type of yeast is pretty important as even a lot of the regularly used wine yeasts have issues that need to be remembered e.g. D47 is known as a pretty good yeast for meads, but it's been found that if it's used to ferment a honey must at over 70F/21C it can produce fusels, that take a hell of a long time (if ever) to mellow out. Or 71B which is another one that makes good meads, especially if there's a fruit ingredient, but it needs to have the must racked off the lees/sediment relatively quickly compared to other wine yeasts, as it's known to cause off flavours (probably from autolysis) if the mead is left on the sediment too long.
Quote:
i took out 2 l thinking it was ready ( no more bubbles), i wanted to let it settle in the fridge for another week. when i tasted it i noticed the taste. I added 2 l o bottled water hoping to change the Ph ( i measured it at a 7,4 when i first started) hoping to make it a more acidic to help the yest. I am not concerned about the adding water part(the demijohn serves as a bio-reactor, so i just diluted the concentration of alcohol allowing the yest convert more glucose), what i am concerned about is the the 10-15 min it was opened, and the fact now that there is oxygen inside, what are the risks of contamination?
Ok, well a lack of bubbles doesn't mean, necessarily, that it was finished. The cold crash idea was fine.

A pH of 7.4 ? you are referring to the water I presume as it's virtually impossible for a honey must to be that high. If you mixed a "normal-ish" must of say 3lb of honey made up to a gallon, you'd find it would have a pH of between the mid 3's and low 4's. And yes, the addition of the water would have done just that i.e. diluted the remaining brew down.

Generally, leaving the fermenter open like that does increase the potential for possible contamination but generally it's unlikely. Airbourne yeasts would generally show problems with smell, taste and some signs of contamination like stuff growing on top of the batch and often some hanging strings of mold down into the batch.

What I do notice, is that you don't mention any nutrients of any type, or even some raisins or something to provide even the most basic of nourishment for the yeast.

Honey is famous for not having much, if any, nutrition for the yeast, just the sugars to convert to alcohol. So often with brews like that (usually considered as "show" meads), they can make for long, slow, difficult fermentations. If you have the bug for "natural" or "organic" there's a few things that can be done, like using yeast hulls, or even just taking a bit of bread yeast and boiling it in water and once cooled, adding that.

Hence without some sort of gravity testing it's hard to suggest where to go next, other than to leave it under airlock and wait it out for a while. Once you can test it and have access to some numbers i.e. starting gravity and where the batch is now, you won't know if it's stuck or needs further testing. Likewise, if the pH of the batch has dropped below about 3.0 pH, it may just need something to increase the pH level to keep the yeast happy.

Sorry if that lots of no real use. I can't think of anything else to suggest. Other than to say, it sounds like it's quite a new/fresh/young batch and as young batches often taste bad, or at least not good, then you might just have to leave it as it is for now and give it some time (you could probably cold crash it to get the yeast to drop out a bit quicker and then test for some numbers later).
__________________

"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away". Tom Waits.

Oh, and here's some blog stuff!

fatbloke is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-09-2012, 11:13 PM   #6
ZaMOnk
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbloke View Post
Ok so not a varietal that's known for strong/weird flavours or smells (like eastern buckwheat or something like that)

Erm no. Table sugar a.k.a. sucrose is a mix of glucose and fructose (fractionally different make up depending on whether it's beet sugar or cane sugar - apparently.

As for stopping fermentation ? again, no. The yeast doesn't care where it gets it's sugars from, the only thing that will stop a ferment is either cold crash and chems, or when the yeast hits it's alcohol tolerance and dies off, otherwise there's always potential for a restarting of fermentation if it's got stuck for some reason.

While this method would reduce the chances of infection, it's not guaranteed. Some sort of sanitiser is usually recommended or considered best practice - hell, I don't pay for the "good stuff" like star san or iodophor, I just make mine up with 5 crushed campden (sulphite) tablets and 1 teaspoon of citric acid in a pint of water, which I keep in a hand spray. I wash and rinse with dish soap and water, but then give anything that will contact the honey must with the sanitiser and let it have 2 or 3 minutes of contact time, then just shake off any excess.

Further, heating or boiling a honey must is completely unnecessary. It's not a beer must so there's nothing to convert. Plus heating honey musts can drive off most/a lot of the aromatics and some of the more subtle flavouring elements of the honey - sure some store bought honey may have been heated enough for filtration and blending, but generally not enough to adversely affect the honey. Older recipes that you might find around the web that say about heating or boiling the must, are often connected to unsanitary water supplies, rather than issues with the honey, which, after all, is natures most anti-bacterial, anti-fungal substance (and the only food product that doesn't need a "use by" or "best before" date).

Even honey that's crystalised can be just mixed with water and left alone and it will re-liquidise over time or with some mixing.

As above, honey doesn't need "pasteurising"....


Ah, well also that's no guarantee of "good" yeast. Without knowing the type, it's hard to say whether it's one that will give good results with all types of must. Sure it may have been fine for elderberry, not giving any off flavours, but the type of yeast is pretty important as even a lot of the regularly used wine yeasts have issues that need to be remembered e.g. D47 is known as a pretty good yeast for meads, but it's been found that if it's used to ferment a honey must at over 70F/21C it can produce fusels, that take a hell of a long time (if ever) to mellow out. Or 71B which is another one that makes good meads, especially if there's a fruit ingredient, but it needs to have the must racked off the lees/sediment relatively quickly compared to other wine yeasts, as it's known to cause off flavours (probably from autolysis) if the mead is left on the sediment too long.

Ok, well a lack of bubbles doesn't mean, necessarily, that it was finished. The cold crash idea was fine.

A pH of 7.4 ? you are referring to the water I presume as it's virtually impossible for a honey must to be that high. If you mixed a "normal-ish" must of say 3lb of honey made up to a gallon, you'd find it would have a pH of between the mid 3's and low 4's. And yes, the addition of the water would have done just that i.e. diluted the remaining brew down.

Generally, leaving the fermenter open like that does increase the potential for possible contamination but generally it's unlikely. Airbourne yeasts would generally show problems with smell, taste and some signs of contamination like stuff growing on top of the batch and often some hanging strings of mold down into the batch.

What I do notice, is that you don't mention any nutrients of any type, or even some raisins or something to provide even the most basic of nourishment for the yeast.

Honey is famous for not having much, if any, nutrition for the yeast, just the sugars to convert to alcohol. So often with brews like that (usually considered as "show" meads), they can make for long, slow, difficult fermentations. If you have the bug for "natural" or "organic" there's a few things that can be done, like using yeast hulls, or even just taking a bit of bread yeast and boiling it in water and once cooled, adding that.

Hence without some sort of gravity testing it's hard to suggest where to go next, other than to leave it under airlock and wait it out for a while. Once you can test it and have access to some numbers i.e. starting gravity and where the batch is now, you won't know if it's stuck or needs further testing. Likewise, if the pH of the batch has dropped below about 3.0 pH, it may just need something to increase the pH level to keep the yeast happy.

Sorry if that lots of no real use. I can't think of anything else to suggest. Other than to say, it sounds like it's quite a new/fresh/young batch and as young batches often taste bad, or at least not good, then you might just have to leave it as it is for now and give it some time (you could probably cold crash it to get the yeast to drop out a bit quicker and then test for some numbers later).
Thx for the reply it is very informative.

as nutrients i added some gelatin when i brewed the batch and i raised the ph to 7,also when i brewed it. should i drop it to 4-5?
__________________
ZaMOnk is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-09-2012, 11:47 PM   #7
fatbloke
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK - South Coast.
Posts: 2,657
Liked 171 Times on 158 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZaMOnk View Post
Thx for the reply it is very informative.

as nutrients i added some gelatin when i brewed the batch and i raised the ph to 7,also when i brewed it. should i drop it to 4-5?
Gelatin isn't nutrient, it's one of the materials used, sometimes, for fining/clearing a batch.

Nutrients come in 2 types. The one often referred to as "nutrient" is white crystals like sugar, but it's DAP/di-ammonium phosphate. The one referred to as "energiser" is generally a light tan coloured powder, which often does have some DAP, but also yeast hulls and other micro-nutrient type substances in it.

Plus I'm getting confused as hell about your pH values. A standard mix of about 3lb of honey made up to a gallon, with water, would normally show a pH value between about 3.2 pH and the low 4's. Yeast likes an acid environment, but will stall if it drops too low (below about 3.0 pH). So why you'd have thought raising it up to the 7.0 area is mystifying me. 7.0 is neutral and most water is generally one or two tenths either side of 7.0

Plus, here's a link to a mead making guide. It's a fair bit to read but answers most of the questions newer mead makers often have.....
__________________

"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away". Tom Waits.

Oh, and here's some blog stuff!

fatbloke is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-09-2012, 11:48 PM   #8
Arpolis
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,044
Liked 192 Times on 178 Posts
Likes Given: 34

Default

Hmmm Never heard of Geletin as a nutrient source. So you are talking about un-flavored standard gelatin powder mix right? Looking at a couple sources on what is all in Gelatin powder mix it is high in protien with trace bits of Calcium, Iron and sodium.

Any funky smells may just be from lack on nutrients for the yeast. Instead of protiens it is more important to have readily available amino acids to be metabolized into protien. Raisins are a good cheap nutrient source as FB mentioned. That along with yeast hulls or boiled bread yeast are all great ways to add nutrients if you don't have commercial yeast nutrient on hand.

PH adjustment should not be needed with meads unless fermentation stops due to too low of a PH. Then raise it to the Mid 3 range to low 4 range and it should start back up. I would just leave this bad boy alone for a while and once it is completly clear and not droping any more sediments then you can taste it and add some citric acid if you think it needs it.

__________________

A painting says a thousand words. But a painting while on good mead just looks funny!

Arpolis is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sour/Funky Mead? Yavid Mead Forum 14 08-12-2014 01:09 PM
Sour Mead -- Anyone Try This? kopher Fermentation & Yeast 11 10-03-2011 03:44 PM
Sour Wood Honey mead Boerderij_Kabouter Mead Forum 11 09-03-2011 07:56 PM
Possibly a sour mead problem (sanitation question) The5thHerring Mead Forum 4 08-31-2011 02:47 PM
sour mead uncommonsense Mead Forum 2 06-26-2011 03:26 AM