The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Mead Forum > potassium sorbate....

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-17-2013, 01:01 PM   #1
gizmodog51
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: deland, florida
Posts: 240
Liked 12 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default potassium sorbate....

is there any way to dilute a solution that has this in it?

i commited the sin of not reading labels and added cloudy cider to a brochet mead i was vinting with this crap in it.

later after several attempts to get what i thought was a stuck fermentation going turned out to be cider with potassium sorbate as a preservative.

do I have any alternatives other than pitching this out?

here's what i've done so far. i diluted the mead 50/50 with water.

thnax,
GD

__________________
gizmodog51 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-17-2013, 03:20 PM   #2
saramc
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: suburb of Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,743
Liked 146 Times on 132 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

It was sorbate on the ingredient list, not benzoate? How far into the ferment were you, are you sure you had active yeast remaining? Perhaps an OG and current SG would be useful, along with the date you started this. What yeast are you using? Usually sorbate does not cause problems, I ferment juices which have this added all the time with no special attention.

Depending on your answers I would think you may be able to pitch a new yeast, EC1118 or KV1-1116....but you also diluted by 50% with water. Assuming you can recoup this, do you have access to frozen apple juice concentrate? I am thinking you would want to get some flavor back & concentrate could turn that water addition in to juice.

__________________

Motto: quel che sara sara

saramc is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-17-2013, 06:08 PM   #3
gizmodog51
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: deland, florida
Posts: 240
Liked 12 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

the brochet was rendered down this pass sunday 13 th jan. 5lbs of honey.

while still hot i added 1 gallon of zeigler's old fashioned cloudy apple cider.
label reads potassium sorbate to maintain freshness.

i continued heat until the cider & honey were well mixed. cooled and transfered to 1 gallon jugs. each holding 1/2 gallon or there abouts, added 1/4 tsp of yeast nurtient to each jug.

sunday afternoon rehydrated lalvin 1118 in 1C of warm water for 15 minutes poured 1/2 cup in each jug.
late on the 16th i repitched with new yeast, cotes de blancs with no results by today late morning 17th. so i decided to dilute one jug 50/50 and leave the other alone.
always used organic juices when doing a melomel or cyser mead. so i figured it was the P.sorbate causing the problem.
OG 1.122
the OG reading is from the undiluted must.

got any ideas?

thanx,
GD

__________________
gizmodog51 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-17-2013, 06:15 PM   #4
Bluespark
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 417
Liked 26 Times on 20 Posts

Default

Wait. Your OG was pretty high. I did a pyment in the same range and saw no activity for at least 48 hours

__________________
Bluespark is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2013, 12:24 AM   #5
saramc
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: suburb of Louisville, KY
Posts: 1,743
Liked 146 Times on 132 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Just may be stressed. Will likely take 48-72hrs before you see visible signs of fermentation. No pop/sizzle on the surface? Is the must temp close to 70?

On the good side, the fact that you heated the juice works in your favor. The heat helps break the preservative bond with the sorbate. But again, I do not think this is an issue caused by sorbate; plus I just made a cyser from Zeigler's Apple Cider and it took off.

__________________

Motto: quel che sara sara

saramc is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-18-2013, 01:11 PM   #6
gizmodog51
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: deland, florida
Posts: 240
Liked 12 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saramc View Post
Just may be stressed. Will likely take 48-72hrs before you see visible signs of fermentation. No pop/sizzle on the surface? Is the must temp close to 70?

On the good side, the fact that you heated the juice works in your favor. The heat helps break the preservative bond with the sorbate. But again, I do not think this is an issue caused by sorbate; plus I just made a cyser from Zeigler's Apple Cider and it took off.
while rendering the honey down i was surrounded by a large swarm of honey bees. there were probably a thousand just under the patio /pogoa i was cooking under but my wife said the outside of the pogoa was covered with bees! while cooking the honey probably 35-50 bees drove into the fumes or into the boiling churning foam. now i'm wondering if upon death they may have released a neuro toxin from their stinger that is disturbing yeast health.
i know it sounds farfetched but both jugs, diluted and undiluted have enough yeast in them for two batches of beer and not a peep of fermentation. yesterday i decided to mix up a 3.3lb can of malt extract & dilute with a gallon of water, pitch some hydrated lal 1118 let it set for 24 hours and then pitch the diluted batch of brochet upon it to make a braggot. i'm anxious to see if fermentation will continue after the addition of the brochet.

GD
__________________

Last edited by gizmodog51; 01-18-2013 at 05:14 PM. Reason: typo
gizmodog51 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-19-2013, 03:21 PM   #7
gizmodog51
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: deland, florida
Posts: 240
Liked 12 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

continuing the saga of the stalled brochet......

good news, the undiluted portion mixed with beer malt was happily bubbling along but began to stall out so i added 3 oz of beet sugar degassed reinstalled the airlock and she is running along just fine.

this morning my other gallon jug of pure brochet was just staring me in the face wanting some attention. well i took a page from my early days of mead making and said to myself what the hell so i pitched a packet of bread yeast into the jug. let it just set there floating for about 30 minutes and then stirred it into solution.....low and behold no kidding i've got fermentation!!!
after failure with several high priced wine yeasts! frankly this is a go figure moment for me
the carboy batch will receive an addition of organic cider today.

as primarily a beer brewer i don't understand why wine has to be degassed and beer doesn't? actually beer ferments very well in closed pressurized system.

GD

__________________
gizmodog51 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-12-2013, 07:36 PM   #8
gizmodog51
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: deland, florida
Posts: 240
Liked 12 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmodog51 View Post
continuing the saga of the stalled brochet......

good news, the undiluted portion mixed with beer malt was happily bubbling along but began to stall out so i added 3 oz of beet sugar degassed reinstalled the airlock and she is running along just fine.

this morning my other gallon jug of pure brochet was just staring me in the face wanting some attention. well i took a page from my early days of mead making and said to myself what the hell so i pitched a packet of bread yeast into the jug. let it just set there floating for about 30 minutes and then stirred it into solution.....low and behold no kidding i've got fermentation!!!
after failure with several high priced wine yeasts! frankly it a go figure moment for me
the carboy batch will receive an addition of organic cider today.

as primarily a beer brewer i don't understand why wine has to be degassed and beer doesn't? actually beer ferments very well in closed pressurized system.

GD
a month tomorrow on this brochet mead project.
it has since stopped fermenting and been cold crashing in my freezer for at least a week.
at racking, FG was 1.040
OG was 1.122
add temp compensation for the cold must, probably acouple points higher.
this stuff is thick meaning it coated the test vessel like 10 WT oil!
after adding copious amounts of apple juice it just refused to ferment any longer.
i'm gonna serve a sample carbed from my kegs...may have to adjust ....

total ingredients :
five lbs of honey
1 gallon apple cloudy cider
1/2 gallon apple juice
2 large frozen cans of apple juice
3.3 lbs of malt.
water to 5 gallon mark
EC 1118
Epernay
bread yeast

GD
__________________
gizmodog51 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-12-2013, 09:56 PM   #9
SagamoreAle
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 156
Liked 11 Times on 10 Posts

Default

Sorbate doesn't prevent fermentation. It prevents yeast reproduction. If you pitch a good amount of yeast you don't need to worry about sorbate.

__________________

Ex fermentum, scientia.

SagamoreAle is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do I need both potassium sorbate and potassium sulfite? davekippen Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 05-06-2012 03:35 PM
potassium sorbate. texstro Mead Forum 6 05-01-2012 10:39 PM
Potassium sorbate/Potassium metabisulfite question baddagger Cider Forum 4 11-11-2011 01:05 PM
how to use potassium sorbate? knotquiteawake Cider Forum 2 09-16-2010 12:21 PM
Potassium Sorbate Douglas1234 Cider Forum 8 03-20-2008 04:24 PM