eliasmarobin

Recipes 

tl;dr version:
we made mead without starter/nutrients. Took 3 months on carboy and it tastes good. What we could do to improve and what we did wrong?

So... me and my friends made our 1st mead, or kind of. Now I'm really worried because of what I read elsewhere about mead making...

PROCESS:
We read a pretty simple guide on internet and we made it even simplier...
We used:
3 KG of honey
7 L of water
10g of Lalvin D47 yeast

Our steps:
Heat the honey to get it liquid again (it was crystalized)
Re-hydrated the yeast by the instructions
Mixed honey and water, waited it to cool and added the yeast

We are using a 20 L bucket for fermentation/carboy
Every material has been sanitized properly with iodophor.

That was 75 days ago...
1st racking: 30 days after mixed, tasted like water + honey almost no alcohol
2nd racking: 60 days after mixed, tasted pretty damn good!
Bottling: will happen at 90 days after mixed (so 15 days from now)

So I explained the whole thing because now I'm worried. I read in lot of places about starters, nutrition (2 things we never worried about) and finally that fermentation should happen in 14-21 days...

QUESTIONS:
- Starters/nutrition: we are considering making starters and add nutrients now. What would you advice for nutrition? We are thinking about DAP + Potassium Bicarbonate. What do you say?
- Fermentation process: by this you mean the INITIAL fermentation, am I right? It's when the yeast is growing to full power. So now we need to wait for the alcohol to build up, am I right?
- Racking: I read in some places that you should do monthly racking for 6 to 12 months. Is that just to clarify the mead or is it needed as process to build up alcohol and flavour?
- Bottling: the same places said that you should keep it bottled after all that racking for at least 6 months... Why? Not sure why keep it bottled for 6 months, really.

Sorry for bothering...
(english is not my mother tongue, so sorry if I did some mistakes)

tweake

Recipes 

the only major thing you did wrong was lack of nutrition which is why its taken so long.


no need for a monthly racking. rack as little as possible. only need to rack when going from fermentation bucket into carboy and then rack again for clearing.
if you age the mead in the carboy (carboy is not a bucket) sealed with an airlock, then theres no need to let it age in bottles.
some people do bottle aging ie let it sit in bottles for 6-12months. this is simply to free up the carboy for the next batch.

do not worry about making a starter. you rehydrate the yeast which is perfectly adequate.
nutrition.....just be aware that nutrition and energizer are terms that are often mixed up.
read up on SNA (staggered nutrition additions). tho the first nutrition should be energizer eg vitamins, amino acids etc. this helps a lot with the yeast in the initial growth phase. the next additions are DAP.

Potassium Bicarbonate is not really needed unless the honey is extremely acidic.

mine generally spend 1-2 weeks in fermentation bucket then racked to carboy. fermentation takes a few more weeks to finish. then its wait till yeast drops. mead is racked off the yeast. then its sulfated and sorbated, then back sweetened.
then its left to age in the carboy.

edit: big tip..get a hydrometer, ones that goes past 1.120

eliasmarobin

Recipes 

Our idea now is to try to keep a steady production. Not commercial (yet :P)

I did some research and found out that buckets or carboys can be used for the second fermentation process. The main advantage of the glass carboy is that you can see how the lees are forming up.

Even in a 20L batch?

After some talk we came up with another step by step plan...

- Activate the yeast (no starter)
- Make the mix of water and honey (we still need to choose the initial gravity and final gravity)
- Add nutrients (based on HighTest SNA)
- Pour the yeast
- pH test and correction (if it is too acid)
- 12-24 hours later, add the 2nd batch of nutrients (based on HighTest SNA)
- fermentation mid point add the 3rd batch of nutrients (based on HighTest SNA)
- Weekly gravity check
- When the gravity reachs 1.000 we take the 1st fermentation as ended
- Rack the mead
- Weekly pH and gravity test
- After 2 months, 2nd racking, sulfate and sorbate it
- Filter it (not sure if needed yet)
- pH and gravity test.
- back-sweeten as necessary
- 1 more month aging
- filter and bottling

What do you guys say?

I know, its not that much aging but I just need to understand how important is the aging and if there is a way to expedite the whole process.

About nutrition: we do not have those pretty nutrients like GO-FERM/Fermaid K/SuperFood... Could someone tell me what could we use instead? DAP only?

KevinM

Recipes 

There's another advantage to carboys, and that's the mimimal headspace. If you fill a bucket, you're leaving the top part exposed to air. This diameter might be 2-4 feet across. Whereas a carboy, filled up to the neck, will be 2 inches or so. Less exposure to oxygen, less unwanted oxidation. (Compared to wanted oxidation, later on.)

Fermenting in a bucket doesn't matter since the production of co2 forces the oxygen out. And the primary fermentation is usually when most to all of the sugar turns to alcohol.

To detimerine completion, you'll want to take several successive days of readings. If the reading is stable, then it's probably finished. It's very possible for the reading to be .9something for example, expecially if there is no residual sugar, or a reading of 1.12 if there is. My last one ended high, not because of any stalled fermentation, but because the yeast pretty much died due to alcohol content of around 15% (I planned on doing a 13% mead, but forgot to include honey displacement in my container.) I didn't feel like adding another yeast to finish the rest of the sugar, so I declared it done.

Multiple racking process may not be necessary with the quantities we, as homebrewers do. There's lots of various arguments about, but I'm in the factor of seeing that with modern yeast strains, and the lack of pressure and least autolysation that is seen in larger tanks, that a lot of racking may not be as needed. So example, Primary, Secondary, Bottle.

What can happen, if not racking, is that it's potentially possible to get off-flavors in the beverage due to dying yeast. Sometimes this is desired (Think of some wines like chardonnay, that are sur lie, aged on the lees (yeast) to get a yeasty almost meaty flavor).

Filtering is for clarity and yeast removal. Not too necessary, but nice. I'd prefer filtering equipment rather than something like coffee filters though, so I don't bother, and use a cold crash to drop out yeast.

Aging is quite important. It has to do with flavors and odd chemical reactions and oxidation processes, yet without overoxidizing. Essentially, people will consider a wine/mead/beer too green or too young. Sometimes the alcohol is too harsh and too forward when it's young, and it mellows out once aged. The higher alcohol content the drink contains, the more it needs to age (untill you get to the content where somethings distilled and contains nothing that can react with oxygen) Note: it' may be something about sugars. I'm not a chemist, so I'm not 100% but generally, the higher abv, the longer it's going to need to age to balance.

There are artifical ways to age something, but I've found it too complicated. It has something to do with oxidation rates and the amount of oxygen that reacts with the wine. Some is good, since this ages the wine, but it can also be over-oxidized, which if you really want to know what overoxidzed anything tastes like... pour several glasses of wine/mead and let it sit out. Drink one a day. The taste will be different and usually unpleasant. (Note. If you do try this. Make sure you use a cheap wine you don't mind throwing away.)

Also, if you later bottle, there is a phenomenon termed bottle shock. This means that during the process of bottling, some oxygen is introduced into the liquid and it will take some time for this oxygen to react with the alcohol. It'll take a small bit of time for the flavors to go back to normal.

__________________
Primary: Sake
Secondary: GF Czech Lager
Waiting to be kegged, Italian Primitivo
Kegged&Ready: GF Orange&Coriander, GF Honey Lager, GF chocolate ale, GF English ale, Island mist (zinfandel), Island mist (cbry malbec).
Bottled: Infected Mead, Dry Hard ciders, Accidental Sorghumwine, various unnamed.

eliasmarobin

Recipes 

Carboys: we don't have access to such glass ones and not sure if a plastic water container (those of 20L) will do all that better than our 20L bucket (sure it has less contact area so less oxidation)... So i guess we gonna have to stick with some oxidation for now...

Determining completion: ok got it... its is not absolute but its going to be stable when hit. Is there a way to calculate a closer number? Based on yeast strain, initial gravity and such?

Clarification: We are changing from filtering (read that it changes the flavour) to cold crashing and some finning agent, not sure if it will be needed yet

Aging: will be bottle aging, almost sure now.

Our new plan would be:

- Activate the yeast (no starter)
- Make the mix of water and honey (we still need to choose the initial gravity and final gravity)
- Add nutrients (based on HighTest SNA)
- Pour the yeast
- pH test and correction (if it is too acid)
- 12-24 hours later, add the 2nd batch of nutrients (based on HighTest SNA)
- fermentation mid point add the 3rd batch of nutrients (based on HighTest SNA)
- Weekly gravity check
- When the gravity stabilize we call the 1st fermentation done
- Rack the mead
- Weekly pH and gravity test
- After 2 months, cold crash, filter it (not sure if needed yet), sulfate and sorbate
- pH and gravity test.
- back-sweeten as necessary
- bottling and aging (6+ months on bottle)

tweake

Recipes 

starters are useful for doing very tough ferments or a very delicate yeast. with a robust yeast and a normal must its not really required.
i do a lot of direct pitch eg just throw the yeasts on top and leave it, with out a problem.

using only buckets is a bit of an issue. they are very hard to seal. probably better to get a barrel with screw on lid and make sure it has a seal inside the lid.
plastic water bottles would be better than nothing or import some carboys. 'better bottles' are good and are easier to ship.

buckets are great for fermenting, just no good for storing mead.
DAP is fine for the main nutrition but you really need the vitamins at the start.
i use Tronozymol. the old methos was to use vitamin B1 tablets or things like marmite/vegemite (bit of a kiwi thing). and boiled up brewers yeast.

the plan.....
do the PH test before you add yeast or nutrients. a cheap PH meter can be better than strips as color of honey an make reading of strips difficult.
add nutrients based on gravity readings rather than just time as time will vary greatly depending on temp and other factors.
you really need the last nutrient to be added by the 1/3 mark as the yeast really don't use it once you get to 1/2 way point.

if using a bucket, as soon as your 110% sure its finished fermenting, cold crash, use finnings if required, rack it off the yeast, stabilize and backsweeten if required then bottle.
your better to bottle age it as you don't have a carboy to bulk age it in.

eliasmarobin

Recipes 

Ok, after some research I discovered some local suppliers for nutrition (they call them yeast activators, not nutrients... )
Now I'm contacting them to get more specific info...

My idea of nutrition would be:
At rehydration: trace metals, phosphorus, potassium, magnesium, sulfur, amino-acids, B-complex vitamins
On each step (1st at the first noticeable brix drop, 2nd at 1/3 sugar): hulls, amino-acids, vitamins and some DAP to complete the N needs.

We are still arguing about the oxidation problem and trying to figure out what to do.

So you mean we should have as little as possible time on the secondary fermentation (would be your "carboy time")? Just enough to be sure the fermentation is over and then coldcrash/fining/stabilize/backsweeten and bottle? Just to be sure I understood it right :P

tweake

Recipes 

normally you would use a carboy and leave it in it for 6-12 months.
however as you do not have one you will need to bottle it as soon as possible and let it age in the bottles for 6-12 months.

KevinM

Recipes 

I'd honestly go for the 20L water bottle. That's pretty much a carboy and was used that way when they were glass. You'd want to top off the mead up to the neck and put an airlock on that for the secondary. Wether you want to do the bulk aging in that, I'm not entirely sure.

Alternatively, you may be able to find a soda keg, and use that.

As Tweake said, you'd normally go from bucket to the carboy, letting the rest of the sugars be consumed, this way, when you opened and tested the gravity, you'd be exposing less of the mead to air. Alternatively, if you weren't going to look, that could be both a secondary and aging vessel. You could potentially rack it into yet a second carboy if you really thought that it'd help at the 2-3 month range (Like if a lot of yeast settled to the bottom and it wasn't modern yeast).

If I couldn't use a carboy or water bottle.. I'd probably go for 1 gallon sized glass jugs for the secondary vessel each with airlocks.

__________________
Primary: Sake
Secondary: GF Czech Lager
Waiting to be kegged, Italian Primitivo
Kegged&Ready: GF Orange&Coriander, GF Honey Lager, GF chocolate ale, GF English ale, Island mist (zinfandel), Island mist (cbry malbec).
Bottled: Infected Mead, Dry Hard ciders, Accidental Sorghumwine, various unnamed.