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Old 08-14-2011, 04:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcaneXor View Post
Redstone Meadery makes a subtly hopped mead in their nectar series called "Nectar of the Hops". I quite enjoy it.
My wife and I just took a tour of Redstone today. My wife bought a Groupon for the tour/tastings. We both liked their Nectar of the Hops enough that we bought a bottle, and I'm going to try to duplicate the recipe with my next batch. We also received a bottle of their 2003 Boysenberry Reserve, which I can't wait to break open.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:20 PM   #12
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I apologize in advance for the long post, but I've a lot to add....

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Originally Posted by mkut View Post
I've been given some hops (goldings, kent hops), i want to make a mead with some hops (i'm an ale fan) any trusted recipes people have tried?
Yes! I can speak with some authority on hop metheglins...I've made several, including the 2 batches that I currently have bottled (see signature). One of these used the exact same hop varieties. I have no idea how much hops you have, what the alpha values are, or what size batch you're making, but I'd recommend using a spread of additions throughout the boil. For some reason, I chose a 45 min boil...this was my hopping schedule:


Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.00 oz. Fuggle Whole 4.70 19.8 45 min.
2.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 5.00 21.0 45 min.
1.00 oz. Fuggle Whole 4.70 5.6 30 min.
1.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 5.00 6.0 30 min.
1.00 oz. Fuggle Whole 4.70 2.9 15 min.
1.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 5.00 3.1 15 min.
1.00 oz. Fuggle Whole 4.70 0.0 Dry Hop
1.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 5.00 0.0 Dry Hop

As you can see it takes a $h!tload of hops to do it my way...I was targeting 80 IBU's, and this schedule got me a calculated 79.5.

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Originally Posted by frydogbrews View Post
i'm interested to hear if anyone has done this and how it turned out also. hoppy beers are my favorite, but the subtle sexiness of a mead might not be a good match with more commanding flavors of hops, even mellow ones. plus, since you need to age mead for so long, most of the hop flavor would probably go away in that year to year and a half.
They turn out awesome, and hops match up with a mead quite well, although I think you are correct that the more subdued hops (EKG, Fuggle, and perhaps some of the continental noble hops) are actually better. I did do a hop metheglin with Cascade, Chinook, and Simcoe, and it's good, but the EKG/Fuggle is just a little smoother, and I think the herbal earthiness of those hops blends better with the honey. I do plan on brewing another batch of this style with a mix of noble hops (probably Saaz and Tettanger) when the 2011 hop harvest comes around

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Originally Posted by frydogbrews View Post
darkbrood, i would highly recommend not boiling your honey. it doesn't really need to be boiled and you end up losing a ton of the honey goodness(flavor and aroma) if you do that. also, one pound of honey per gallon water would make a very weak drink.
3 pounds per gallon create something that is around 10-11%, so knock two thirds of your sugars out of there and you have under 4%.
Not only is it absolutely fine to boil honey, and it's absolutely necessary for a hop metheglin. Boiled mead will be different that non boiled, but boiling honey doesn't "ruin" honey...it's not the Devil that some make it out to be. I have referenced this website/experiment many times before (preview: most of the tasters actually preferred the boiled mead! when blinded). While the methods used aren't perhaps the "best" from a scientific standpoint, it's a pretty good experiment, and does match my own empirical experience with my metheglins. Now to be fair, I only boiled half of my honey (to improve hop utilization) and added the rest just before flameout.

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Originally Posted by DarkBrood View Post
@frydog - I've noticed that 2.5-3 pounds per gallon seems to be the standard for most mead recipes. Like I said, I haven't tried these yet - the thread for the "justcoz" recipe mentioned it being drinkable like a beer...I guess if it came out beer-strength, that would be pretty weak for a mead.
Would making it stronger drown out the pleasant hop aromatics with the ones from the honey variety? Or would you recommend something to add more body to the weaker-strength recipe?
You could certainly do this as a "session" mead, but I can tell you that a stronger mead does NOT drown out the hops. I used 18 lbs honey in a 6 gal batch for a target OG of 1.126 As noted before, I target about 80 IBU's

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Originally Posted by frydogbrews View Post
you will lose some of the hop goodness as the mead ages, but it should only need a 6 month age, so it should still have plenty of hop flavor/aroma. again though, i have no clue how the hop flavor will translate into mead, but i am anxious to hear back from anyone that tries it.
You'd be surprised how well the hop holds up in mead...the hop aroma and flavor doesn't seem to fade quite as much as it does with, say, an aged double IPA...my two hop metheglins are over 2 years old now, and when I broke them out at Mead Day last weekend, they were a hit, and the hops are still really there. My theory is that the even higher ABV might allow some of these compounds to remain undegraded longer? Interestingly, the aging question feeds back to the question of hops overpowering the mead...I think the American hop version is getting better with age.

One last thing...I will mention that you really need some residual sweetness in a hop metheglin, and depending on your technique and yeast, some back sweetening may be necessary. From my experience, I would say that a lightly-semisweet (FG ~ 1.012-1.014) is probably perfect. I don't suppose it's surprising that this is probably the average FG of many ales....

Good luck whatever recipe you end up using! Be sure to post your results!
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Reason: CHANGED IBU VALUES -- INCORRECT ON ORIGINAL POST
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:46 PM   #13
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i read that whole thing(had to refill my glass halfway though), and got all excited. right up to that last part about it needing sweetness. i don't care for sweetness in my meads or wines at all. it's odd really, because i eat a ton of candy.
that's a ton of info though, thanks.
i will still disagree with you about boiling honey, just seems rude to the honey.

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Old 08-14-2011, 08:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frydogbrews View Post
i read that whole thing(had to refill my glass halfway though), and got all excited. right up to that last part about it needing sweetness. i don't care for sweetness in my meads or wines at all. it's odd really, because i eat a ton of candy.
that's a ton of info though, thanks.
i will still disagree with you about boiling honey, just seems rude to the honey.
Don't let "sweetness" fool you...I too like very dry meads as a general rule. All we're talking about is a minimal residual sweetness to balance the bitterness. This will not be perceived as overly sweet, no more than an IPA of the same finishing gravity. Some flavors just don't come across right without that small amount of residual...chocolate mead is the same way.

I don't boil my honey as a routine, but for this mead I think it's important. I can agree to disagree...totally cool...just read that experiment I linked and keep an open mind. One of these days I'm going to repeat Errol's experiment, but there's just too much else I want to be brewing instead!

Please note too: I edited the IBU values in my post...I had pulled up the wrong recipe file...as I mentioned, I only boiled half the honey to improve the hop utilization...with half the honey instead of the full amount, the IBU calculation goes from 58 to 79 for the EKG/Fuggle recipe, and I targeted 80 IBU's, not 60.
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Old 08-15-2011, 12:19 AM   #15
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@biochemedic - wow...thanks for the data....adjusts the thinking a little bit....

Does anyone else have a similar experience with empirical evidence showing that hop aromas/flavors are better preserved in meads? Hops fade pretty darn fast in beers - a 6-month-old IPA is generally much less tasty....if aging of 6 months or ore is required for these meads, i'd like to be sure that I'm not going to end up with just a bitter mead...

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Old 08-22-2011, 08:52 PM   #16
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Right i decided to go ahead and make a 1 gallon batch,

I wanted a "strong" drink so used a high alcohol yeast (dessert wine yeast)

ingredients;

High alcohol yeast
3.5 lbs of honey
1.5 oz of Goldings Hops (grown in Kent)
1 tsp Citric Acid
2 tsp yeast Nutrient

I simmered the the hops in the water for 1.5hrs. I then strained the hops off, boiled the water to kill off any bacteria. Added Honey, acid and nutrient. allowed to cool. then added the starter yeast.

Let you know what it tastes like in 3-4 months possible more.

Thanks again for all the feed back.

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Old 08-22-2011, 09:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkut View Post
Right i decided to go ahead and make a 1 gallon batch,

I wanted a "strong" drink so used a high alcohol yeast (dessert wine yeast)

ingredients;

High alcohol yeast
3.5 lbs of honey
1.5 oz of Goldings Hops (grown in Kent)
1 tsp Citric Acid
2 tsp yeast Nutrient

I simmered the the hops in the water for 1.5hrs. I then strained the hops off, boiled the water to kill off any bacteria. Added Honey, acid and nutrient. allowed to cool. then added the starter yeast.

Let you know what it tastes like in 3-4 months possible more.

Thanks again for all the feed back.
You should get some bittering from this protocol...simmering isn't quite the full rolling boil we use in beer brewing, but you should have gotten some hop isomerization, if not quite as much as if you used a full boil the whole time.

You will, however probably not have much hop aroma and flavor -- these compounds are only extracted by adding late in the boil...you may want to consider dry hopping this for a few weeks after the primary fermentation has completed.

Others may disagree, but I generally only add acid at the end, and only then when it's needed to make the flavor really pop. I didn't need to add acid blend (or tannin) to any of my hop metheglins.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilot210 View Post
My wife and I just took a tour of Redstone today. My wife bought a Groupon for the tour/tastings. We both liked their Nectar of the Hops enough that we bought a bottle, and I'm going to try to duplicate the recipe with my next batch. We also received a bottle of their 2003 Boysenberry Reserve, which I can't wait to break open.
I have been to redstone and talked with them in good detail and got some great info on the nectar of the hops mead. They told me on their 7bbl system they are dry hopping their regular nectar of the gods mead with 22 lbs of hops. 11 lbs of amarillo and 11 lbs of centennial. I have a mead going right now that I plan on dry hopping it with these exact same hops just scaled back to a 5 gallon batch. I hope that helps everybody out.
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Old 08-23-2011, 02:35 AM   #19
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And I think a mead with hops added would be a metheglin.

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Old 08-23-2011, 02:45 AM   #20
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I have been to redstone and talked with them in good detail and got some great info on the nectar of the hops mead. They told me on their 7bbl system they are dry hopping their regular nectar of the gods mead with 22 lbs of hops. 11 lbs of amarillo and 11 lbs of centennial. I have a mead going right now that I plan on dry hopping it with these exact same hops just scaled back to a 5 gallon batch. I hope that helps everybody out.
Great info! Interesting that they are only using dry hops, and no bittering. While I do dry hop my hop metheglins, I've felt that the bitterness was also an important part of the flavor. However, I've never tried Nectar or made anything this way myself...I may have to search out some...

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And I think a mead with hops added would be a metheglin.
yes
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