Help with Raspberry Mead

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aMillionDreams

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I'm getting ready to make a raspberry mead (melomel). It's going into a 5 gallon fermenter so I'm guessing I'm going to need to make a 4 gallon batch so there is enough headspace. Now for the questions:

1) I've collected roughly 7 pounds of raspberries from my raspberry bushes this season, is that enough for a 4 gallon batch?

2) Do I need to deseed the raspberry puree?

3) Most recipes on the web call for yeast nutrient and other additives but the guy at my LHBS says mead should only be honey, water, and yeast, and whatever fruit you're going to throw in. Who should I believe?

4) Do I need to rack to a secondary adding the fruit then, or just throw it all in primary and let it go?

5) Duder at the LHBS said I need to let it go for at least a year. Opinions?
 
If you do not use yeast nutrient then yes you will need to let it go for a year.

I as well have been researching mead. It is possible you may not need nutrient if you have raspberry in your mix, I really don't know.

I am hoping to make a raspberry mead myself this year. Our raspberries won't be ready for picking for at least another month or more.

My plan was to make about 1 quart of juice to add after fermentation, and add some (not sure how much) to the mead at the beginning. I should mention I will be making a 6 US gallon batch.

Duder should know to make a real mead you don't add fruit either... lol

Anyway, hopefully there are some more experienced replies to this post.
 
Seven pounds might contribute a more subtle raspberry flavor, so if I were making it, I'd save the fruit for secondary.

What yeast do you plan on using? Some yeasts need more nutrients than others, but like bill mentioned, you might not need the nutrient if you put the raspberries in the primary fermentation. The couple of melomels I have made with 71B and D47 have gone buckwild because of the fruit, and I didn't need to add any nutrient after the first addition, post lag phase.
 
My $0.02....

Looking at some various melomel recipes here in the mead recipe database, you're looking pretty good for your fruit addition based on what others have done.

Having never done fresh fruit, I can't answer #2 with direct authority, but my guess is that would SUCK and I probably wouldn't do it. Freeze and thaw, slight crush, that's what I would do.

Mead is whatever you want it to be. If you want to go with a purely traditional mead, then no additives should be added. However, if you want something drinkable and not looking for awards for the best traditional no-additive mead, then I would just use the nutrients as needed for a better overall fermentation. Without nutrients and such the yeast could stress and produce a long and slow ferment with potential off-flavors and smells. You just have to ask what you're doing this for. If it's your first time making mead and you're doing this to drink and share, then why would you care if it has nutrient to help the ferment or not?

Fruit in primary vs secondary is oft debated. Primary fruit additions allow the yeast to eat the sugars in the fruit and produce a less pronounced fruit flavor, with a little more complexity to the product...but it might not taste "like raspberries." If you fruit secondary, the yeast should be done with most (if not all) fermentation and the juice you'll be adding will be for a more pure raspberry flavor. Some do primary only, some secondary only, some do a little of each. It really depends on what you've done before that you know you've liked and do it again. If this is your first melomel, I'd recommend secondary, then do some trial batches with stuff in primary, or a mix of both as you get into it.

Mead can take a year, or two, or it can be 6-10 months. Depends on the fermentation and how well it goes, how much residual sweetness you want in it, how much alcohol it contains. Dryer and higher abv meads take longer to age that bite out. Sweetness hides a LOT and is drinkable in maybe 6 months (most of mine are palatable, but get better closer to or after 1 year). I'd say MINIMUM 6 months, then you may (MAY) be able to bottle, but that's a question that can be answered ONLY when you taste it around that 6 month mark.

Now, as to doing this in a 5g carboy...

You need to primary. That doesn't matter (much) the size of the container. Mead doesn't krausen nearly as much as beer (for the most part..I've had some big ones, and ones that were barely visible).

Then you're going to rack onto fruit, so you'll need a container big enough to store 7# of fruit and your mead.

Then, you're going to rack off the fruit for bulk aging. This is where it will sit for the most amount of time, and headspace needs to be minimal to prevent oxidation and other bad things. If you're going to long term age in a 5g carboy, then you need to plan ahead so that by the time you get to your 3rd carboy - you have about 5g left. Otherwise, you're going to want to top up. Some do that with water. Some do it with a honey/water combo. Some use marbles or aquarium stones to fill space on the bottom of the fermenter (but I think you lose a TON of mead that way unless you're good at racking through the stones to get as much good mead as you can without disturbing the sludge).

I do 5.5-6g batches, knowing that after a racking or two, I'm going to lose enough to be right around the 5g mark.

If you have enough equipment from brewing, here's how I would do it:

5.5g in a 6g carboy (or brewing bucket) primary.
Rack into secondary bucket or 6g carboy for secondary.
5g carboy bulk aging.

I like to use buckets with fruit because it's easier to get fruit chunks out. That and I use the bigger 7g wine bucket so I can put plenty of fruit in and still get 5g of liquid awesomeness into the next racking.

If you must use a smaller primary, I'd tihnk about making it a little higher ABV than you think you want, then when you end up topping up with water, you dilute it back down to the originally planned ABV instead of watering your normal gravity recipe down to an even lower ABV drink.
 
Thanks a lot for the response, jezter. That answers a lot of my questions. A couple more questions though. How long would you keep the melomel in primary and secondary before racking to a third for bulk aging?
 
Keep in primary until you've reached your final gravity (ie: yeast have stopped fermenting sugars due to alcohol tolerance or complete dryness, etc, etc). I'd say 2-3 hydrometer readings as the same gravity will confirm. For me, it's about a month. Possibly longer if you don't use nutrients, as they really help speed up some parts of the ferment process.

Rack to secondary on the fruit for 2-4 weeks. Don't want to let your fruit get moldy or sit in there for long periods of time and start to rot. Once the color has been drained out of the fruit and they're looking a little pale, rack it off. I use puree that sinks to the bottom, and let it sit about a month on the puree.

Then goes into bulk aging. Rack again if the lees (sludge) builds up over 3/4" -1" in the bottom of the fermenter. Once it's clear enough to read newspaper through (and tastes good enough to drink) you're ready to bottle.

Generally, I don't let my meads sit long enough but I bottle and begin drinking around 6 months in. I also make mine at 2.5-3# honey per gallon and it always finishes sweet (how I like it). I also don't take any gravity readings, so I can't help you on those :p
 
I actually have a raspberry melomel that i just racked of the fruit last week, just waitin for it to clear to bottle it. It's a 3 gal batch. I used 6lb honey, some yeast nutrient, and D-47. I let it go in primary for about 2 months, then on the raspberries for 10 days. The sample i tasted before the raspberries had a definite alcohol smell but absolutly no flavor. But after transfering of the raspberries it smells like raspberry cough syrup. I'm gonna have to back sweeten before bottling. good luck.
 
I've been remiss in posting my raspberry melamel recipe in the database, but will do so now:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f80/ra...10-great-arizona-homebrew-competition-183027/

It scored a 43 at the 2010 Great Arizona Homebrew Competition, and despite on 24oz of raspberries in the primary (3 gallon batch), here were some of the comments:

"great raspberry upfront"

"good berry flavor"

"massive raspberry nose"

Jezter6 covered everything else nicely...
 
First of all, don't *ever* get advice from the 'Duder' at your LHBS...if he says you don't need nutrient for mead, he has no idea what he's talking about. Even if you did the fruit in primary, you wouldn't have enough free nitrogen and trace nutrients to have a healthy yeast fermentation.
I agree w/ everything Jetzer says...
Additionally:
- No, you do not need to deseed the rasberries, nor would I have *any* idea how you would do that! You can minimize some of the mess by using a nylon or muslin bag to contain the fruit pulp. For fruit with really small seeds like strawberries, rasberries, mulberries, etc. the nylon is going to be better at containing the seed mess. If you're using a carboy, stuff the bag through the neck of the container and use a funnel to get your pureed fruit through into the bag before tying it off and racking the fruit onto it.
- Similar to jetzer, I've routinely been starting w/ 6 gallon primaries for my mead, and when I do my first racking to secondary, I go from a 6 gal carboy to a 5 gal one...this gives enough left over to fill about 3-4 wine bottles. These are also set to airlocks, and when you rack again later, you use one or more of these bottles to top off your carboy and keep the headspace to a minimum. This is indeed most important after the primary (and to some degree, the secondary -- if you rack onto fruit, even though the main fermentation is done, you will get some secondary fermentation, especially w/ an aggressive yeast like EC-1118), since there will be less active CO2 production to push out oxygen from the surface.
 
Thanks for input everybody. I feel like I have a better grip on the situation now. I'm glad I don't have to deseed the puree, because it's a pain. I would have to force all 7 pounds through a sieve. No thanks!
 
You can minimize some of the mess by using a nylon or muslin bag to contain the fruit pulp. For fruit with really small seeds like strawberries, rasberries, mulberries, etc. the nylon is going to be better at containing the seed mess. If you're using a carboy, stuff the bag through the neck of the container and use a funnel to get your pureed fruit through into the bag before tying it off and racking the fruit onto it.

Whoa! I love this idea BUT how do you get the bag back out of the carboy?


Also for those of use that have CO2 around, could you top off your carboy with CO2 instead of more wine or water?

Thanks
 
Whoa! I love this idea BUT how do you get the bag back out of the carboy?


Also for those of use that have CO2 around, could you top off your carboy with CO2 instead of more wine or water?

Thanks

Good question...with the muslin bags, I usually just cut/destroy the bag and take it and the debris out piecemeal. It's pretty easy to pull part of it up with a racking cane, or in a pinch if it was being really ornery, you could hook it with a piece of wire. With a nylon bag that you presumably could clean, sanitize and reuse, you might have to be a bit more creative. I have also heard though, of people using nylon stockings for this, which could certainly be more disposable, like the muslin bags.
It's definitely not easy to get large amounts of fruit or whole dry hops in or out of a glass carboy, but believe me, it's doable...

Regarding the CO2 -- being that it's heavier than air, Yes...
 
The other thing with the stocking, if you are careful you could maybe squeeze it out whole as it is long and narrow. Maybe someone could make a nylon bag that is shaped like a long garden hose and will come back out of the carboy.

My plan was to make a syrup, raspberries (or whatever) and a little sugar if needed and then heat to pasteurizing temps but never boil and then strain that before going into the wine. Sugar added to the berries will draw out most of the juices.
 
Thanks for input everybody. I feel like I have a better grip on the situation now. I'm glad I don't have to deseed the puree, because it's a pain. I would have to force all 7 pounds through a sieve. No thanks!

Actually a juicing machine might be good for this, should someone wish to de-seed.
 
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