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Old 01-28-2013, 03:18 AM   #21
Unferth
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I'm giving this a go tonight. I just threw some clover honey, AJ concentrate, and water in a gallon jug. og 1.14, pitched ec1118.

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Old 01-28-2013, 05:14 AM   #22
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I'm curious as to if anyone has ever experimented with aging the product before freeze concentrating. Would one yield a tastier end product by aging first, or can it be done soon after fermentation has finished and still produce a nice drinkable beverage?

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Old 01-28-2013, 05:36 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACbrewer

I'm not trying to get into a legal fight here. I thought I'd read at the TTB website that distillation included any concentration of the alcohol and that was only allowed under a liscensed permit. I strongly recomend that you take a look at the TTB site and until you find it explicity exempts freezing assume that it is not legal with out paperwork.

If you find that, please post the link. and I 've found second hand sources saying it is ok, but on something like this I personally require original sourcing.

BTW, the name should be 'honeyjack'
There are about a million and a half post on HBT about it. It would only require you doing a very simple search.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:06 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_in_ak View Post
There are about a million and a half post on HBT about it. It would only require you doing a very simple search.
I did do that, and was unsatisfied because I was finding no original sourcing (ie citing of TTB regs/US code #).
Someone did post the relative TTB code location in this thread. HBT is a 2ndary source, the TTB code isn't. When it comes to legal things, I atleast would want to read original source, and not someones thoughts on it, unless they were a lawyer. /rant
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitack View Post
Since we're talking numbers here we should be more precise. It it not about reducing water by half, it is about reducing total volume by half. The alcohol shouldn't freeze, so assuming you don't have any trapped in the ice, then yes halving the total volume should double the ABV.
yeah I was being quick in my typeing, removing 1/2 gallon(64oz) of water from 1 gallon of mead is not the same as removing 1/2 the water (which is probably around 57oz assuming about 10% abv and V=128 oz).

I think in round numbers if you reduced the volume by 1/2 guessing that the abv did a x2 is going to be close (+/- 10%?) until someone as an actual formula. And even then I think a test of the tossed ice to be sure it was just water and had no alcohol in it woudl be needed. >shrugg<

I'm interested more in the results someone gets.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:41 PM   #26
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Ok, I'm not a numbers guy. In fact math an I don't get along very well. What i do know is this .... I put aprox. 3.5 liters of mead into 2 2liter bottles and after melting it over a bowl for an hour and a half there was a nice big lump of water in the bottle. In the bowl there was a nice amber brown liquid the tasted very sweet and smooth. The alcohol content seemed stronger the original state. Since you are concentrating flavors it would stand to reason that the ABV would go up. I guess you'd have to take readings before and after freezing.

I do have a question though, what is the TTB? I did a search and came up with some wine makers group.

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Old 01-28-2013, 12:52 PM   #27
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Never done one of my meads. Did brew an Eisbock last year-froze 25%. Resulted in a very tasty 10% ABV bock. Mouthfeel was a little thin- would try a ^ mash temp next time. Was supposed to bring out more hop presence, but really it was like they disappeared altogether.

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Old 01-28-2013, 12:58 PM   #28
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On a side note, in the finger lakes region, they make ice wine. They harvest the grapes in the middle of the night while they're frozen. Make for some syrupy dessert wine.

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Old 01-28-2013, 01:06 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstanavech View Post
I do have a question though, what is the TTB? I did a search and came up with some wine makers group.
TTB is Treasury and Tax Bureau? or is that Tax and Treasury Bureau? It is something like that, they either are part of, or own the IRS, and also same way own BAFTE. Basically the leagal devision of Treasury responsible for (amoung other things) enforcement of the Acohol laws for the Federal Gov't.
see http://www.ttb.gov/ for a better description, as mine is probably off a little.
from their site
"Who We Are - The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB) is the newest bureau under the Department of the Treasury. "
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enf0rc3r View Post
On a side note, in the finger lakes region, they make ice wine. They harvest the grapes in the middle of the night while they're frozen. Make for some syrupy dessert wine.
Yeah this is different. What is happening there, is water remove before fermentation. What fractional freezing does is water remove after fermenation. BTW, ice wines originated in northern Germany, and in Quebec, they do 'ice cider' where they freeze apple juice, discard about 80% of the volume (primarily water ice, with I'd imagine some impurities) and then ferment the rest.

Ice wine(cider) shoudl make a sweet desert wine. Fractional freezing should make a wine that is stronger, but not nescesarily as sweet as ice wine. - note I've no idea since I've not done this.

From what I've read about yeast, the result of the fermenation is influenced by the sugar concentration at the start. So a 1.080 grav will give a different flavor than a 1.160 grav, even if both are watered down or concentrated to the same ABV in the end. Thus the order of the steps matter. But again, not something I've verified for myself by trying. (in Joy of Homebrewing, this is alluded to by the 'quarter bock' beer)
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