First time making anything...

...and I have no idea what I'm doing. If (when) I use incorrect terminology, laugh to yourself and feel free to correct me; otherwise I'll just keep on sounding like an idiot and nobody wants to deal with that.

I decided I was going to make mead a few months ago because reasons. I live in a small town in Pennsylvania so I decided to go as local as I could; apples from a farmer's market, semi-local honey (same state, at least) and PA spring water (alright, Deer Park, but all the springs listed on the jug were in this state).

I'm using my dad's old Ale Pail kit for a five gallon batch, and I'm following Brad Smith's post on a home brewing blog site for instruction.

So, five gallons of water (give or take), 12 pounds of Dutch Gold Orange Blossom honey, and maybe 15 apples that my dad and I pretty much shredded (by accident; we used some appliance of my mom's that neither of us knew would absolutely demolish anything we put in), and for yeast I bought two packets of Mangrove Jack's Cider yeast. I know, it's not wine yeast, but like I said, I'm a newbie and I'll be damned if I follow instructions to the letter.

I started October 4th using Smith's idea to split the yeast into four equal parts, pitched the second bit on the 6th and the third on the 7th.

Smith advises to add the final portion "after roughly 2/3 of the sugar has been depleted, i.e. the original gravity has dropped by 2/3 of your target."

And that's where I'm stuck. I stopped seeing the airlock bubble around the beginning of November, so I decided to take a reading. I place my hydrometer in its jar after I fill it with my...cloudy amber apple water...and it's apparently completely satisfied to just stay at the bottom, no buoyancy at all. In November it smelled sharply of vinegar and as of this morning I catch no vinegar smell exactly but rather something else sharp, apples and honey (that's a good sign, right?), but still no buoyancy from the hydrometer.

What does this mean, that there's zero gravity? I mean, I don't think that's possible. Or is it? I have no idea. When exactly should I be putting in the rest of this yeast? Is this actually going to turn out since I used a cider yeast?

12 pounds for a 5 gallon batch is not a lot of honey, so I could easily see it fermenting out in 3 - 4 weeks. More telling is the hydrometer reading. Unless its broken - which should be obvious (you can test in pur-ish water at 60º F and it should ride the 0 line), a very low reading means there is no sugar left.

Best test to see how it is coming along is to taste it. There are a lot of directions you can go from here, but unless you are going to add more honey and/or fruit and continue fermenting you should probably think about racking it off the yeast sometime soon.

And I don't think you will need to add any more yeast.

I'm pretty new as well, but if I had to guess I would say that your gravity is now well below 1.000 and causing the hydrometer to plummet to the bottom of the test tube - but that is me just guessing. How does the booze taste? What was your SG? I recently pitched two separate 5 gallon batches of mead myself, one raspberry and one orange spice - both recipes called for 15 gallons honey. You might take a moment to research some of the properties of the specific yeast that you pitched, I know some yeast has a faster fermentation rate than others - also how warm did you store the mead? From what I'm gathering you pitched early Oct and fermentation halted 1 month later .. I suppose its not unreasonable to believe that things have slowed down . .but then again Im not professional . You know what, don't listen to me - I'm just learning myself. Good luck!

Hi TrueMonty, I wonder if the recipe you are using suggested you add yeast nutrient and not yeast at different stages of the fermentation? That is a good method of feeding yeast nutrient in a nutrient deficient must. It's called step feeding.
Never heard of anyone pitching yeast more than once unless they have a problem and then the idea is not to pitch the yeast a second time but to add the stalled must to the yeast. But I am not familiar with Smith's mead recipes...
Gravity refers to the density of your liquor. An hydrometer measures the density and water has a density of 1.000. Water with sugar in it will have a density of greater than 1.000 and wines are typically started with a gravity of about 1.090. Many meads are started with a gravity greater than that - perhaps 1.120 or thereabouts. Why? Because all the flavor in honey comes from the sugar whereas the flavor of grapes or other fruit comes from other molecules. If you want more flavor in a mead you may want to use more honey per gallon.
When all the fermentables in mead have been fermented (and all the sugar in honey is fermentable) the gravity drops to below 1.000 (not zero). It drops to below 1.000 because alcohol is less dense than water and what you have is H2O + alcohol. It might fall as low as 0.998 or .996 BUT if you are using a yeast designed to ferment sugar in apples (cider) apples typically have about 1 lb of sugar in a gallon of pressed juice.. So such yeast may not be able to tolerate a greater ABV (alcohol by volume) of about 7 or 8 percent but mead will have at least 2.5 - 3 lbs of sugar per gallon (12- 15 percent ABV)...

I agree with Bernard. Read the Brad Smith post again. He adds the yeast once but then he does staggered nutrient additions using DAP and Fermaid K. Now if you started this batch in early October and you checked in early November, your mead was dry by then. That's why it zeroed out. Don't put any more yeast in if the mead is already below 1.000. The yeast will not do anything as the alcohol content is high enough to be toxic to the yeast at this stage. Let it continue to ferment in bulk. But read the directions better and next time add all the activated yeast in Go Ferm and add nutrients when fermentation first starts and more nutrients at the 1/3 and 2/3 sugar break and your mead will go dry rather quickly. Use a hydrometer so you know what the original gravity reading was so you know what the 1/3 and 2/3 sugar breaks are. After fermentation is finished that the final gravity reading and you will know how much alcohol has been made. Study up and plan better. But don't use cider yeast for a mead. For a cyser, I've used ICV-D47 yeast or a Montrachet yeast. You may also prefer a Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast. Keep learning.

Is your sample big enough? Your hydrometer is sitting on the bottom of the tube as there isn't enough in the tube to float it.
Even if your brew is at 1.000 which it WONT be it would float !

bernardsmith and buzzerj (and everyone else!); THANK YOU very much for your responses; I'm understanding more in the few minutes reading your explanations than I've retained in the hours I've put into trying to figure out how to start.

One thing though, I decided to figure out more about nutrients and when combined with "Mangrove Jack's" in the search bar one of the first things to come up is a post from right here at HomeBrewTalk that says yeast nutrient is already added into the packet. The more I think about it the more I'm convinced I had read this somewhere else before going out and buying this specific packet of yeast.

Maybe I put too much in? The same person who claims the nutrient is already in the yeast also says that one packet is all it takes for a 6 gallon batch and over the course of the first few days I put in a packet and a half...

fartinmartin said:

Is your sample big enough? Your hydrometer is sitting on the bottom of the tube as there isn't enough in the tube to float it.
Even if your brew is at 1.000 which it WONT be it would float !

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You know, I wondered about that, so I went back and tried again. This time I marked off the amount needed with a line on some tape to make sure. I was wrong the first time; I had less in than I should have. When I tested it with water, it leveled out at exactly 1.000. When I put in my stuff (I'm not about to call it mead yet) it leveled out at 0.990, so, wait, less than 1.000? How does that happen?

I attached two photos taken with my phone (sorry about the quality), one's a bit further back because I couldn't get the stupid thing to focus on something so close. It's 2 a.m. here so the lighting is terrible but you can sort of get a picture of its color and how cloudy it is.

Well, I can't argue with those pics, but, I am confused, what's going on here , I have never seen readings like that ?

Mr. Monty. You have to understand that a mead must and a wine must are not the same. A grape wine must has many more nutrients in it than a mead must would. A must made from honey is a nutritional desert for yeast. Honey is pretty much devoid of the nitrogen and other nutrients that yeast need to make cell walls to reproduce to get to the numbers they need to get to so they can effectively ferment your mead. Wyeast Liquid yeast may have some nutrients but what it does have is it's own source of sugar to make a starter when you smack the pack. But really as far as nutrients go, you need to add them for meads. Otherwise your fermentation will be very slow and labored and you will be waiting months and years. That's not a healthy ferment. Do it right and use staggered nutrient additions and you will be fine. Your mead is basically done fermenting or you need a new hydrometer.

Readings under 1.000 are fine. Alcohol has a specific gravity of something like 0.8. So, if the liquid is mostly water and a little alcohol, it will come in under 1.000.

fartinmartin said:

Well, I can't argue with those pics, but, I am confused, what's going on here , I have never seen readings like that ?

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TrueMonty: The first home brewer so terrible he actually brewed something more watery than water itself

Nonsense, don't worry about it. As said, SG is a measure of density; alcohol is less dense than water. All that .990 (I've heard tell of getting down to .980) means is that your mead has fermented dry. Add more sugar or honey if you want to increase the ABV- if the yeast can take it and keep fermenting, you can get up there pretty high. Otherwise, rack it off and add some stabilizer (potassium meta/campden or some sorbate), and then add honey or sugar until it reaches your desired sweetness.

Since you made about 5 gallons... As a heads up, in my estimation dry mead is usually less than 1.005, semi-sweet will be ftom 1.005 to 1.01, and sweet above that. Your personal tastes may vary. One pound of honey added to one gallon of liquid raises the SG by about .04, one pound of sugar adds about .05. So if you want to take your mead from .990 to 1.01, for example, you want about a half pound of honey per gallon.

As others said, you can step feed your nutrients (fermaid or similar and DAP), but there's no reason to step feed yeast. The yeast start out by multiplying until there's a lot of them, then turn their attention to making alcohol. Once it's been fermenting for a few days taht's all the yeast you'll need.

sheepcat said:

Nonsense, don't worry about it. As said, SG is a measure of density; alcohol is less dense than water. All that .990 (I've heard tell of getting down to .980) means is that your mead has fermented dry. Add more sugar or honey if you want to increase the ABV- if the yeast can take it and keep fermenting, you can get up there pretty high. Otherwise, rack it off and add some stabilizer (potassium meta/campden or some sorbate), and then add honey or sugar until it reaches your desired sweetness.

Since you made about 5 gallons... As a heads up, in my estimation dry mead is usually less than 1.005, semi-sweet will be ftom 1.005 to 1.01, and sweet above that. Your personal tastes may vary. One pound of honey added to one gallon of liquid raises the SG by about .04, one pound of sugar adds about .05. So if you want to take your mead from .990 to 1.01, for example, you want about a half pound of honey per gallon.

As others said, you can step feed your nutrients (fermaid or similar and DAP), but there's no reason to step feed yeast. The yeast start out by multiplying until there's a lot of them, then turn their attention to making alcohol. Once it's been fermenting for a few days taht's all the yeast you'll need.

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So, just to be sure, even though I added the yeast two months ago and there's been zero visible action for 3/4 of that time, there's still going to be plenty of yeast there to gobble up the sugars of any honey I add? I just need to add more nutrients than the trace amounts that came in the Mangrove Jack's yeast I used?

I'm not familiar with Mangrove Jack's Yeast but they look like they come from down under. I see they make a cider yeast and beer yeasts. It says it is a high attenuator but it doesn't say how high it is and what it's alcohol tolerance is. How much of a %ABV the yeast can ferment to before it craps out. So if a yeast tops out at 14% ABV it doesn't matter how much more sugar or honey you add, it's not going to ferment any more, the alcohol concentration is too high, it's toxic to the yeast. It doesn't matter how much yeast you have in there, their cells can't take it. Cider yeast as a rule reach their alcohol tolerance in the low double digits, maybe 10-11% ABV. Now with 12 lbs. of honey in a 5 gallon batch of mead I wonder if you had a Original Gravity around 1.080 which would mean best case about a 12% ABV if the yeast took it dry. There's a decent chance that your batch has reached it's alcohol tolerance meaning any sugars you add will sweeten only and the yeast won't ferment any additional sugar. Even if you add more nutrients, it's likely the yeast will not ferment anymore. Invest in a hydrometer and learn how to use it. Find out what your current specific gravity is, if you add more sugar measure the gravity again. Wait a week and measure it again. If the readings are the same, there is no fermentation activity. Let it age and plan your next batch. But next time study more first. Prepare your must, add nutrients in a staggered fashion and add your yeast all at once. Monitor your fermentation progress with a hydrometer.

TrueMonty said:

TrueMonty: The first home brewer so terrible he actually brewed something more watery than water itself

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Do you have it out of the bucket and into a carboy now? If not, do it now, using the correctly sized carboy so that there is no headspace at all. Let it sit until clear, and rack (siphon) again to a new vessel whenever you have lees (sediment) of 1/4" inch or more, or after 60 days if less lees form.

.990 is a typical reading for a finished mead or wine, as alcohol is less dense than water, and most wines and meads will finish there.

Let it sit and clear in the carboy, topped up, and don't even look at it for at least 60 days. It may never taste great, but it may get much better and surprise you if you now keep it out of light and protect from oxidation.

TrueMonty said:

So, just to be sure, even though I added the yeast two months ago and there's been zero visible action for 3/4 of that time, there's still going to be plenty of yeast there to gobble up the sugars of any honey I add? I just need to add more nutrients than the trace amounts that came in the Mangrove Jack's yeast I used?

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I would NOT add anything at all at this point. It's fermented out nicely. If you add more honey now, it will ferment out- giving you rocket fuel that may take years to age out.

Let it clear and then you can stabilize it if you want to sweeten it so that it will be clear, no longer dropping sediment, and finished.

buzzerj said:

If you can't follow a recipe, then you don't mind making bad mead with expensive honey. Some people are not cut out for this. They don't want to get serious, they just want to screw around. If this is you, you may want to take up a new hobby. Have you ever tried underwater demolition?

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Man I'm glad you didn't comment on some of my first thread questions. I would've quit this forum immediately, and given up the wealth of great information that's in here.

If you can't give constructive criticism, then you don't mind driving off new homebrewers. Some people aren't cut out to give helpful information without following it up with jackass comments. They take everything way too seriously, and never are given a chance to just screw around and make mistakes. If this is you, you may want to start up a new forum. It could be called "Homebrewing Forum for those that are too prideful and need to be discouraged!" Have you ever tried helping someone without demolishing their hopes and aspirations to become a good homebrewer?

To the OP: it's ok to make mistakes... as long as you learn from them. This website has so much helpful info out there. Just keep reading up, and trying to consume as much information as you can handle. Also, anytime Yooper comments on your threads, listen up. She's given me some of the best advice on my questions.

buzzerj said:

Some people are not cut out for this. They don't want to get serious, they just want to screw around. If this is you, you may want to take up a new hobby. Have you ever tried underwater demolition?

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That's helpful, buzzerj. Mock the young beginner asking questions on his first attempted batch. What's next on your to-do list, literally steal candy from a baby? Maybe you could challenge a blind kid to a match of rock-paper-scissors.

I appreciate that you're still giving me what seems to be well-meaning advice, however heavily laden with malicious sarcasm it may be.

To Yooper and joshesmusica:
Thank you for understanding that, even though I've admitted to being an idiot concerning the subject of making mead, I don't enjoy being hurtfully reminded of the fact. I haven't made the switch to the carboy yet; I was waiting for more concrete advise before I made any moves that could potentially erase any progress I might have made.

I think I'll do so on my day off (this coming Monday) and I'll keep my status updated in this thread as I'll most likely be asking (and infuriating certain stern, faultless brew-gods with) many more insanely idiotic beginner questions.

let's just pretend you've completely screwed up this batch, and it will taste worse than fermented dog ****. at least you will can learn from it. the best thing to do with our own (and especially other people's) mistakes is to be gracious and able to learn; don't beat ourselves up, and move on. oh and (again) listen to yooper's advice.

I couldn't figure out how to start my own thread but i figured this would be a good starting point for me. I would like to have a thread on traditional mead practices. Since mead has been around for at least a thousand years i thought that it would be interesting to find out how it possibly would have been made back then. Please redirect me to a forum post that already covers this or help me start a new one. Thanks


(and sorry for posting in the wrong place)

Stuff_Johnson said:

I couldn't figure out how to start my own thread but i figured this would be a good starting point for me. I would like to have a thread on traditional mead practices. Since mead has been around for at least a thousand years i thought that it would be interesting to find out how it possibly would have been made back then. Please redirect me to a forum post that already covers this or help me start a new one. Thanks


(and sorry for posting in the wrong place)

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Not a problem. For starters, while it's not a forum thread, the HomeBrewTalk wiki has a bit on the history of mead. I found this thread in which user ShadowWulf is looking to find medieval styles, methods, and recipes. During my searching I noticed someone mention a user named "justcoz" in reference to a " long series of messages on the history of mead" but I couldn't find the thread or the user.

There doesn't seem to be much out there on this forum so you might want to start your own thread; just click the "New Thread" button once you're in the mead forum.

Yooper said:

Let it sit and clear in the carboy, topped up, and don't even look at it for at least 60 days. It may never taste great, but it may get much better and surprise you if you now keep it out of light and protect from oxidation.

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I'm back! On Yooper's advice I switched to a carboy that eliminated head space and left my mead to clear up for two months.

Two months later, I decided to bottle it. And guess what? It's delicious! As joshesmusica very wisely cautioned, I expected it to taste terrible, so I didn't get my hopes up. It pours a clear gold with no head, and the first few sips were very...bitey? I guess that's a good descriptor. But after a few sips, however, all I could catch was the pleasant, albeit extremely mild, bubbly taste of apples and alcohol. It has a very distinct honey smell, as well as aftertaste, and I absolutely love it.

I would estimate the alcohol content to be maybe 7-9%, admittedly a little low for a mead, but I don't care. I could have screwed this up to the point of it being undrinkable, but thanks to the help from all of you it was rescued into a decent beginner's batch. Also thanks to you all, I have a veritable laundry list of things to do/avoid/change entirely when I do this again.

So again, thank you all for your help; I couldn't have done it without you.

Picture time? Picture time.

Here's the mead in a wine glass, I enjoyed drinking it like this compared to any other glass.


Here's the mead all bottled up in recycled scientific amber bottles. Something Yooper said about accidentally brewing rocket fuel got stuck in my head, add the look of the bottles and you get the logo you see in front of you.