Kegconnection Complete Starter Kit and More Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Mead Forum > Does this look infected?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-08-2011, 06:46 AM   #21
MattHollingsworth
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Samobor, Croatia
Posts: 1,612
Liked 30 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 37

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
The co2 will bubble out of the airlock. It's not going to hang around in there forever. Temperature changes especially can cause the co2 to bubble out.
Okay, I can see that if the beer heats up the CO2 can bubble out, then if it cools, it will draw outside air back in through the airlock. But let's say the mead or beer stays at the same temp, if the fermenter is filled with only CO2 and no air at all, there'd be no reason for air to mix with that CO2. And even if it does let out CO2, then suck air back into the fermenter, this air should be lighter than the CO2 and sit on top. Then when it warms again if that happens, it would push this air out rather than the heavier CO2 sitting below it. No?

Anyway, all that said, I tend to do secondaries in fermenters that are not much larger than the volume I have as just a general practice to reduce head space just in case. So that could also help explain why my long aging beers don't get oxidized.

I'll see this weekend as well. I'll be bottling a Tripel that's been in secondary since Christmas Eve. It hasn't been opened at all in that time and is in a glass demijohn. It has some headspace but not a ton. Think it's about 1.5 to 2 liters of head space.
__________________
HOMEBREWING SINCE 1997
MattHollingsworth is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-08-2011, 10:54 PM   #22
TheChadd
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rancho Cordova, CA
Posts: 11
Default

CO2 will only bubble out when the pressure is greater inside the chamber than outside. What is making the CO2 bubble out..more CO2 from the mead, of course (either from residual yeast fermentation and/or CO2 coming out of solution); most definitely not air/O2. The fermentation lock is designed to allow gas out if there is a slight positive pressure. The CO2 is just pushing *excess* CO2 out to equilibrate with the pressure outside the chamber. So the environment is still CO2, not air.

Under extreme pressure differentials (normally caused by large edit:decreases in temperature ), the fermentation lock will allow air into the chamber, and even then you will have plenty of advance warning when you see the sanitizing solution in the lock start to drip in the fermenter. This is the ONLY way air will get into a glass carboy if you properly purged it with CO2 before racking and properly connected your fermentation lock.

As for bugs...If you are getting bugs in your mead after you racked it, that's a sanitation issue or an improperly hooked up fermentation lock.

__________________

Secondary: Elderflower Metheglin
Lagering: Dortmunder Export
On Tap: Dunkelweizen


Last edited by TheChadd; 06-09-2011 at 02:01 AM. Reason: clarification
TheChadd is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-09-2011, 01:00 AM   #23
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,361
Liked 4280 Times on 3119 Posts
Likes Given: 825

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChadd View Post

As for bugs...If you are getting bugs in your mead after you racked it, that's a sanitation issue or an improperly hooked up fermentation lock.
Ok, but YOU'RE the one who posted, "Does this look infected?", not me! And I can tell you that in these many, many years, I've never once had lacto, flowers of wine, mold, acetero bacter, cork taint, or any other infection.

I'm not here to argue- hey, if your techniques work, that's great. I'm just pointing out that maybe my techniques aren't to be scoffed at either, because I say it should be topped up to prevent any problems. It's your mead. You can do what you want, of course, and you should. I don't mean to get defensive, but I can assure you that I have never (and probably will never) worry abut infection problems with the techniques I employ.

I'm no scientist, but I can assure you that if you could sample the headspace of your fermenter, after 1 month you would have much less co2 in there than you think! Do some research if you don't believe me.

Cheers!
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-09-2011, 01:54 AM   #24
TheChadd
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rancho Cordova, CA
Posts: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
Ok, but YOU'RE the one who posted, "Does this look infected?", not me! And I can tell you that in these many, many years, I've never once had lacto, flowers of wine, mold, acetero bacter, cork taint, or any other infection.
Yup, and the consensus on this forum was that this was normal when racking mead, particularly metheglin (that was from e-mail response). I also e-mailed some other folks and posted on twitter, and got the same response. I only posted because this was my (my wife's, actually) first mead, and I was unfamiliar with how it would look after racking. I, however, am not new to aging other fermentables for extended periods of time. Just for grins and giggles, if I was used to getting my fermentables infected (or if I brewed sours, bleh), I would have recognized what this was...or wasn't for that matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
I'm not here to argue- hey, if your techniques work, that's great. I'm just pointing out that maybe my techniques aren't to be scoffed at either, because I say it should be topped up to prevent any problems. It's your mead. You can do what you want, of course, and you should. I don't mean to get defensive, but I can assure you that I have never (and probably will never) worry abut infection problems with the techniques I employ.
I most certainly am only trying to have an objective discussion. I apologize if you felt that we were arguing or if you took my statements personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
I'm no scientist, but I can assure you that if you could sample the headspace of your fermenter, after 1 month you would have much less co2 in there than you think! Do some research if you don't believe me.
I did plenty of research (links, books, science, history, common sense, and a hint of anecdote (okay, I don't count anecdotes as research)), and posted each of my findings on this thread, all of which point to head space having nothing to do with oxidation in a glass carboy. I left it open for anyone to point to any research otherwise. Based on that, I'll hold off on adding marbles, dilution water, or that extra stash of mead, all just to top it off with each racking.

I could continue with an argument that if air is already going to get in there (only possible through an improperly sealed fermentation lock), that head space, again, would have minute impact over how much air permeate through over time. One could argue that surface area would be a factor, but if air is already freely flowing in, that would be second order at best.

But I won't get into that, because this would just carry on forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper View Post
Cheers!
Cheers to you, too! Again, I was only trying to have an objective discussion, and I in no way intended to offend you or anyone else on this forum. I hope to see many of you at NHC this year. I always have a great time (when I can actually make it, of course )
__________________

Secondary: Elderflower Metheglin
Lagering: Dortmunder Export
On Tap: Dunkelweizen

TheChadd is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-13-2011, 06:41 AM   #25
MattHollingsworth
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Samobor, Croatia
Posts: 1,612
Liked 30 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 37

Default

A follow up about oxidation:

I bottled that Tripel this weekend. It was in secondary for 170 days with 1 liter of head space in a 20 liter demijohn. Temp fluctuated as seasons changed and we moved. The basement here also is not a proper basement (only half underground) and gets as warm as outside, so started warming as the weather warmed and had to move it into the house. Anyway, point being, it's been warmed and cooled a number of times.

And, it had not a touch of oxidation. I'm one of those people who's hyper sensitive to oxidation. Used to nick people for it constantly when I was judging in the old days. Anyway, no sign of oxidation with this beer, with those conditions. Secondary was flushed with CO2 before racking it in December.

Cheers.

__________________
HOMEBREWING SINCE 1997
MattHollingsworth is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Campden Tablets & Clarifiers (and possibly infected mead) shawnbou Mead Forum 9 04-25-2012 03:43 PM
1st mead batch? infected? baldgeek Mead Forum 3 01-24-2009 02:22 AM
First proper mead, and I'm pretty sure it got infected. TerapinChef Mead Forum 22 01-16-2009 03:41 AM