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Old 02-14-2012, 05:06 PM   #21
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I will grant that someone "may not want it". So? Why? Is that preference enough to compel a prohibition? I have a neighbor who despises oak trees and their leaves. He removed the oaks from his own property. Let's raise the ante and say he's quite allergic to the oak tree's pollen. He "doesn't want" my oak trees and he has a medical condition that substantiates that preference. Oak tree setback? Prohibition? Surely not. Point is, a "preference" or even a limited nuisance isn't enough to justify the regulation.

Sure, the concentration is greater nearer the hives. That's why I pointed out that, keeping 10's of thousands in my backyard we've had NO incident. Do the bees sense that I'm not a bee bigot and thus leave me, my visitors, my family and my dogs alone? Pshaw. They're simply not a problem. You don't even know that they're there until you get about 10 feet from the colony. They fly up out of the box and for all practical purposes disappear as they widely disperse in their foraging. So what is it that makes the neighbor "not want" the bees there, and should that matter? Shouldn't their "not want" have some reasonable basis before it becomes a basis for limiting MY freedoms? Shouldn't that reasonable basis for concern be articulated before we jump into regulation? Can anyone articulate that reasonable basis for concern? I haven't heard it.

Bees are beneficial, unaggressive and almost entirely harmless. Leave them and their keepers alone.

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Old 02-14-2012, 05:16 PM   #22
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Shouldn't that reasonable basis for concern be articulated before we jump into regulation?
Nearly instant death for severely allergic people.

I believe bees can certainly have a place in urban/semi-urban environments, but I don't see how this is not a situation where some regulation is certainly in order. When bee keeping, you are bringing a much higher concentration of bees into an area populated by humans than naturally would occur. To deny that is ignorance. I very rarely see bees in my neighborhood. If a close neighbor set up a hive, I'd certainly see an increase in that number.

I certainly don't believe that a neighbor simply "not wanting" bees near them constitutes a scenario for the creation of regulation, but an allergic person's quality of life within an urban setting far outweighs your right to keep bees without limit or regulation. At least up until the point that we are considering the amount of bees involved, ie, if your bee keeping would subject your neighbors to an increased amount of bees on their property, then it is certainly within reason to regulate.

We're not talking about an oak tree that stays on my property. Your bees will certainly be doing their work on other peoples' property. That fact absolutely dictates that some regulation is in order to balance the interests of those involved, whether they are choosing to be or not.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:19 PM   #23
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A constitutional right? To demonstrate that, one would have to argue that it's a deprivation of property without due process, i suppose, but that would be a tenuous argument. It seems silly and unnecessary to take the issue on in constitutional terms. But to simply say that if something isn't specifically listed in the Constitution it's not protected is like saying Noah had two of every species on the Ark. Come to think of it, one who believes the first might be inclined to believe the latter...

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Old 02-14-2012, 05:28 PM   #24
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Okay... so, that didn't address anything I said...

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Old 02-14-2012, 05:33 PM   #25
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The question of whether or not laws/ordinances/regulations are constitutional always brings me back to this...



edit: sorry for the crappy video, only one I could find.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:34 PM   #26
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Airborne, I disagree with you for a simple reason. First, the "nearly instant death" scenario of true anaphylactic shock is extremely rare. In fact, " is a gross exaggeration of that very rare reaction. But the reason I disagree with you is that I don't think that regulation of the bees is either necessary or sufficient to protect that allergic person. First, is the regulation necessary? No, because, first, my bees don't present a risk. They only sting defensively. Don't disturb them and you won't be stung. Also not necessary because those few who have this reaction will certainly not attract these insects to their yards with nectar plants, and bees don't wander around aimlessly. Also not necessary because there are other ways for that person to protect himself, for example, by carrying an epi-pen. And, regulation would certainly not be sufficient to protect that person. Anaphylactic shock can be brought about by wasps, also, which are much more likely to sting you. Or even by ant bites. So you'd better carry that pen anyway, hadn't you?

If a regulation is neither necessary nor sufficient, leave it off the books.

The concentration is not an issue if they do no harm. And they do no harm. Particularly since the severely allergic person can take measures to a) keep bees from visiting and b) protect their health (carry an epi-pen. wouldn't you?). Severely allergic people should do these things to protect themselves whether I have bees or not.

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Old 02-14-2012, 05:35 PM   #27
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Okay... so, that didn't address anything I said...
That wasn't addressed to you, AB.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:39 PM   #28
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So... Should I be forced to cut down all of my walnut trees because my neighbor is allergic to walnuts?

Those darn squirrels are always carrying the walnuts into his yard too!

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Old 02-14-2012, 05:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by johnsma22 View Post
My neighbor thought he had the right to allow his ugly, viscous dogs to roam free in our neighborhood.

This I gotta see..... pictures?



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One third of our food supply is directly dependent upon pollenation by bees. Their population is collapsing for as yet inscrutable reasons.

That is definitely true. If I had property I would definitely take up beekeeping, however since I'm in a residential neighborhood with kids who like to play all over the neighborhood.... I'll refrain. I don't need an ordinance to tell me it's not a good idea where I live.

Regarding the lady in the story in the OP.... just how many bees does she have? I would think there is a difference between having say 10 hives and say 200. Perhaps a fair compromise would be to simply put a limit on the number that can be kept by residents in that County. Why does it have to be all or nothing?
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:54 PM   #30
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That wasn't addressed to you, AB.
I apologize then. I wasn't sure where you were going with that one.

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In fact, " is a gross exaggeration of that very rare reaction.
I'm allergic to shellfish and from what I've heard from friends who are allergic to bee stings, that allergy is worse. From what I know of my anaphalxsis (unfortunately its how I found out I was allergic), death can come within minutes if not treated.

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They only sting defensively. Don't disturb them and you won't be stung.
While this is generally true, "disturbing" bees takes on different forms. Your neigbor doing garden work could end up disturbing your bees that the neighbor doesn't notice in her garden. She has more of a right to that garden and working it whenever she wants than you do to introduce bees that will find their way into her garden.


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Particularly since the severely allergic person can take measures to a) keep bees from visiting and b) protect their health (carry an epi-pen. wouldn't you?). Severely allergic people should do these things to protect themselves whether I have bees or not.
Why should your neighbors have to adjust their lives so that you can keep bees? See what I mean? And I'm not saying at all that bee keeping should be banned in urban environments at all. I just see some regulation as necessary considering an urban environment is for human use first and foremost, and you as a resident give up some of your "rights" to live in that environment without negatively impacting your fellow residents. While bees may not be overtly dangerous to your neighbors, the possibility exists and that why there's no question that bee keeping will be regulated in my localities.

Furthermore, considering there's pretty much zero recourse for anyone who does end up negatively affected (how could they prove it was your bees?), common sense protections must be in place beforehand.
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